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Euro Court of Human Rights loses its ****ing mind over Niqabs

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  • Euro Court of Human Rights loses its ****ing mind over Niqabs

    Before we start, let me clarify one point. This is not satire. It certainly looks like satire, and in an ideal world it would be satire. However it's actually real.

    The European Court of Human Rights has upheld a ban by France on wearing the Muslim full-face veil - the niqab.

    A case was brought by a 24-year-old French woman, who argued that the ban on wearing the veil in public violated her freedom of religion and expression.

    French law says nobody can wear in a public space clothing intended to conceal the face. The penalty for doing so can be a 150-euro fine (£120; $205).

    The 2010 law came in under former conservative President Nicolas Sarkozy.

    A breach of the ban can also mean a wearer having to undergo citizenship instruction.

    France has about five million Muslims - the largest Muslim minority in Western Europe - but it is thought only about 2,000 women wear full veils.

    The court ruled that the ban "was not expressly based on the religious connotation of the clothing in question but solely on the fact that it concealed the face". The Strasbourg judges' decision is final - there is no appeal against it.

    A court statement said the ruling also "took into account the state's submission that the face played a significant role in social interaction".

    "The Court was also able to understand the view that individuals might not wish to see, in places open to all, practices or attitudes which would fundamentally call into question the possibility of open interpersonal relationships, which, by virtue of an established consensus, formed an indispensable element of community life within the society in question."

    Some face coverings, including motorbike helmets, are exempted from the French ban.

    The woman, identified only by the initials SAS, took her case to the European Court in 2011. She said she was under no family pressure to wear the niqab, but chose to do so as a matter of religious freedom, as a devout Muslim.

    France sets precedent
    France was the first European country in modern times to ban public wearing of the full-face veil. Belgium adopted a similar ban in 2011.

    In Spain, the city of Barcelona and some other towns have brought in similar bans, as have some towns in Italy.

    No such general ban applies in the UK, but institutions have discretion to impose their own dress codes.

    The French government argues that the ban has wide public support. The authorities see the full-face veil not only as an affront to French secular values but also as a potential security risk, as it conceals a person's identity.

    In the past, the European Court has sided with French secularism - it also ruled in favour of the government's ban on headscarves in schools.

    But in 2010, the judges did find against Turkey, ruling that religious garments were not in themselves a threat to public order.

    Exemptions from ban on public face covering-

    Motorcycle helmets
    Face masks for health reasons
    Face covering for sporting or professional activities
    Sunglasses, hats etc which do not completely hide the face
    Masks used in "traditional activities", such as carnivals or religious processions
    The European Court of Human Rights upholds France's ban on wearing the Muslim full-face veil or niqab.


    Yes. An international court of human rights has upheld human rights by upholding a ban on clothing. That's right- they are saving your civil liberties by allowing governments to dictate how you dress yourself.

    But! It's only the nasty, sinful Niqabs that are banned! Wear a surgical mask, crash-helmet or Mickey Mouse mask and you're fine. It's ludicrous.
    The genesis of the "evil Finn" concept- Evil, evil Finland

  • #2
    Clearly they will need to switch from Niqabs to Mickey Mouse masks and get Disney lawyers on their side.
    Socrates: "Good is That at which all things aim, If one knows what the good is, one will always do what is good." Brian: "Romanes eunt domus"
    GW 2013: "and juistin bieber is gay with me and we have 10 kids we live in u.s.a in the white house with obama"

    Comment


    • #3
      At least SCOTUS isn't the only dumbass court around.
      To us, it is the BEAST.

      Comment


      • #4
        Has there ever been a point where a court named "Court of Human Rights" hasn't been a very bad joke?
        If there is no sound in space, how come you can hear the lasers?
        ){ :|:& };:

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Sava View Post
          At least SCOTUS isn't the only dumbass court around.
          This would be something that SCOTUS would overturn 9-0 so fast you couldn't blink.

          In fairness to ECHR, religious freedom isn't one of those fundamental rights that Europeans hold dear, such as the right to government handouts and the right to publicly funded television and so on and so forth.
          If there is no sound in space, how come you can hear the lasers?
          ){ :|:& };:

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Hauldren Collider View Post
            such as the right to government earned benefit
            FTFY
            To us, it is the BEAST.

            Comment


            • #7
              Ponzi schemes aren't earned benefits. Also, earning implies contribution. These explicitly aren't exactly handed out on the basis of how much you contribute.
              If there is no sound in space, how come you can hear the lasers?
              ){ :|:& };:

              Comment


              • #8
                You are literally too stupid to talk to.
                To us, it is the BEAST.

                Comment


                • #9
                  If you're gonna use actuarial terms, get ready to be corrected by someone who actually works at an actuarial firm.
                  If there is no sound in space, how come you can hear the lasers?
                  ){ :|:& };:

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I'd maybe let you get my coffee.
                    To us, it is the BEAST.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      European court of human rights decisions are not enforced.
                      That ruling does seem funny.
                      The rational in france for banning the complete headscarf (I assume that's niqab) was public security reasons IIRC.
                      A mickey mouse mask, or surgical mask is not something that one would wear outside, all the time, as part of his/her usual everyday garment.
                      But the niqab is worned that way.
                      I suppose the ECHR couldn't evoke national security concerns so it went with what was in its discretion: the right to human communication? ( )
                      Actually if roland was here, he could say/explain it far more.
                      (not saying that I agree or disagree but just the context)
                      Last edited by Bereta_Eder; July 2, 2014, 02:45.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Hauldren Collider View Post
                        If you're gonna use actuarial terms, get ready to be corrected by someone who actually works at an actuarial firm.
                        Hi. I work at an actuarial firm. Or, at least, the actuarial department of a very large bank. While "earned" does carry an implication of consideration, the nature of that consideration is defined by the legal, contractual and regulatory context applicable and is by no means confined to monetary contribution. Indeed it can be fulfilled by a nature of enacted responsibilities which could very easily be applied to aspects of citizenship, dependent on the definition of "earned" in the applicable framework.

                        Happy to help.
                        The genesis of the "evil Finn" concept- Evil, evil Finland

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          It's a well-establish fact that every word or combination of words can literally only have one meaning, and when there is any question as to what that meaning is we should always assume the most obscure and/or inapplicable derivation of the terms as the only root of meaning it could have.

                          So for example, if Sava says "earned benefit" and we were to discover a new tribe of peoples on some remote atoll in the pacific, and they had a word that sounded like "earned benefit" but meant a dish of pig entrails cooked only for a feast on the first new moon of the New Year ... then that is what we should assume Sava was talking about. (Well strike that ... that's still more likely than Sava using an actuarial term.)

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Hauldren Collider View Post
                            Ponzi schemes aren't earned benefits. Also, earning implies contribution. These explicitly aren't exactly handed out on the basis of how much you contribute.
                            Actually there are numerous benefits which are contributions based. Unlike you ****ing savages though, we believe that things like food/healthcare/shelter are more important human rights than being able to own firearms or picket children's funerals.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Aeson View Post
                              It's a well-establish fact that every word or combination of words can literally only have one meaning, and when there is any question as to what that meaning is we should always assume the most obscure and/or inapplicable derivation of the terms as the only root of meaning it could have.

                              So for example, if Sava says "earned benefit" and we were to discover a new tribe of peoples on some remote atoll in the pacific, and they had a word that sounded like "earned benefit" but meant a dish of pig entrails cooked only for a feast on the first new moon of the New Year ... then that is what we should assume Sava was talking about. (Well strike that ... that's still more likely than Sava using an actuarial term.)
                              Am I the only one who is aware of the semantics fight between poll-tested words?

                              e.g. pro-life versus anti-choice... Obamacare versus Affordable Care Act



                              "earned benefit" versus "entitlement"
                              To us, it is the BEAST.

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