The GOP eats its own

[Dinner]

WRT Cantor being the only non-Christian Republican in Congress, or rather was, it is also worth noting that every single Republican, except one black male who was appointed to the Senate and who never actually won an election (and who will no doubt get primaried at first chance), is white. This is not a diverse party and they seem to purging their few non white christian folks.

[molly bloom]

molly is the greater offender here.

Am I ?


If I've in the least way offended you, then I'm well pleased.

[DinoDoc]

If I've in the least way offended you, then I'm well pleased.

You'll have to try harder then.

[Imran Siddiqui]

simply that these things have changed and are changing the way in which we interact with each other. we have more choice over whom we interact with, and this will often mean that we forgo interactions people in our locality, in favour of people with whom we have more in common, but who live further away. there's also the fact that if people can have a social life through facebook et al, some will prefer this to a social life based on 'real' interaction. inevitably these developments have changed and will change the traditional places of social intercourse, be that the church or the pub or whatever. it's a question of adaptation to changing circumstances and contexts.

Oh no, I agree with all this. I'm just saying this isn't necessarily all good. There is something very important about having people in your locality you can physically count on when needed and there is something VERY important in dealing with people you don't agree with in your locality (I would argue that being able to avoid those you don't agree with in favor for those who you do results in echo chamber like concepts). Though it is a good thing to have a social life that is a world wide one, I just think it needs to augment a real locality based communal ideal.

[Bosh]

Probably part of it is just my own bias, in that a secular POV makes no sense to me personally. However, there are other factors:

Well religious identification will probably fall a good bit in the coming years out of simple inertia: old people are a lot more religious than the society at large and, being old, they'll be dying off. In some places (like my home state of Maine) religiosity has died down enough that it doesn't have much of a base to bounce back from among people under 65, but that's hardly typical in America.

But yeah, the basic thing is that most people tend to like religious leaders a hell of a lot more than politicians. That means that alliances between religious leaders and politicians then to make the politicians look better by association and religion look worse. The religious right has been very good for the right, not so good for religion.

Meanwhile over here in Korea, I think we're heading towards European-style secularism after a long time of being one of the most religious countries in Asia. Buddhism is undergoing a very messy collapse with identification cratering as it withers back to a rural little old lady core for the most part and Christianity (after booming for decades) is starting to run out of steam and is steadily aging.

[Dinner]

Bosh, that would be nice if true but my experience is that Koreans have embraced western religiosity with frightening conviction. Even worse they've often embraced the most bizarre evangelical sects.

[Imran Siddiqui]

But yeah, the basic thing is that most people tend to like religious leaders a hell of a lot more than politicians. That means that alliances between religious leaders and politicians then to make the politicians look better by association and religion look worse. The religious right has been very good for the right, not so good for religion.

And some people, like Billy Graham, somehow avoid getting tainted altogether - though it does help he was fine with Democrats as well as Republicans.

[Elok]

I think the ideal relationship between church and state is depicted in the Bible by Herod and John the Baptist: John has no physical power to compel Herod to do anything, but he has enough influence that Herod is reluctant to kill him and shut him up. So Herod just sits and squirms as John publicly rakes him over the coals.

[Sava]

I think the ideal relationship between church and state is depicted in the Bible by Herod and John the Baptist:

Are there any other tidbits of bronze age mysticism that you feel represents an "ideal"?

[Elok]

IIRC, Herod and John were about 1000 years into the Iron Age, dingus. You could at least be accurate in your chronological snobbery.

[AAAAAAAAH!]

I think the ideal relationship between church and state is depicted in the Bible by Herod and John the Baptist: John has no physical power to compel Herod to do anything, but he has enough influence that Herod is reluctant to kill him and shut him up. So Herod just sits and squirms as John publicly rakes him over the coals.

I think the ideal relationship between church and state is depicted in the Bible by Herod and John the Baptist: Herod imprisons John, then decapitates him and delivers his head on a platter to his step-daughter because she was a good dancer.

[molly bloom]

You'll have to try harder then.

To offend you ? How immodest of you.

Herod imprisons John, then decapitates him and delivers his head on a platter to his step-daughter because she was a good dancer.

And supposedly because he wanted to get into her lounging pyjamas. Herod The Great was actually a rather good ruler- constructed an all weather harbour at Caesarea Maritima and built an incredibly impressive palace complex.

There is no evidence he ever killed all those little innocent babes, either. Whaddashock.

[AAAAAAAAH!]

John was executed by Herod Antipas, not Herod the Great.

[Bosh]

Bosh, that would be nice if true but my experience is that Koreans have embraced western religiosity with frightening conviction. Even worse they've often embraced the most bizarre evangelical sects.

Koreans and Korean-Americans are not the same, Korean-Americans are vastly more likely to be Protestant. But yeah, a lot of the Protestants in Korea seem to have picked up some of the worst elements of American Christianity and that's not even counting the crazy-ass spin-off cults. But that very thing is hurting with the recruiting, especially with ministers being so widely known for shaking down their congregations.

It's a long slow process and Protestantism will probably gain a few more points here (although unbelief is growing far more quickly thanks to the collapse of local Buddhism), but a lot of Koreans are starting to treat Christians kind of the same way that Americans treat Jehovah's Witnesses...

[molly bloom]

John was executed by Herod Antipas, not Herod the Great.

If the Bible can mix 'em up, I can too.