Decisive Battles

[Sava]

she's got a nice body

her face is weird

[PLATO]

All good choices, but I can't imagine one that had a larger impact on the world today than the Battle of Tours. THAT is the decisive battle of History.

[Sava]

All good choices, but I can't imagine one that had a larger impact on the world today than the Battle of Tours. THAT is the decisive battle of History.

You are assuming all of the Western world collapses if it goes the other way.

Falsely

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

None of them had as much impact as certain natural disasters did.

[dannubis]

No Tours without Zama though...

[PLATO]

You are assuming all of the Western world collapses if it goes the other way.

Falsely

Falsely? How do you figure? Who would have stopped a muslim domination of Europe? If that had happened, what would the world look like today?

I am certainly not going to pull a kenobi and say I know it all about this battle and its ramifications, but what I do know leads me to believe that Europe would be muslim today if not for it.

Fill me in on the details if you would?

TX.

[Sava]

50k - 80k troops werent going to convert europe to islam

[PLATO]

50k - 80k troops werent going to convert europe to islam

Thanks for the thoughtful and exhaustive answer.

[Sava]

why?

there's not much more to say

a victory at tours doesn't turn everyone into muslims

[PLATO]

why?

there's not much more to say

a victory at tours doesn't turn everyone into muslims

Well, I was reading this:

The importance of these campaigns, Tours and the later campaigns of 736-7 in putting an end to Muslim bases in Gaul, and any immediate ability to expand Islamic influence in Europe, cannot be overstated. Gibbons and his generation of historians, and the majority of modern experts agree with them that they were unquestionably decisive in world history.

from

http://www.thelatinlibrary.com/imperialism/notes/tours.html

and just thought there might be more to it.

Thanks for setting me straight!

[Sava]

well maybe you shouldn't claim things that your source doesn't even say

[PLATO]

well maybe you shouldn't claim things that your source doesn't even say

Ummm....from the same source:

Had Martel fallen at Tours the long term implications for European Christianity may have been devastating. His victory there, and in the following campaigns, may have literally saved Europe and Christianity as we know it, from conquest while the Caliphate was unified and able to mount such a conquest. Had the Franks fallen, no other power existed stopping Muslim conquest of Italy and the effective end of what would become the modern Catholic Church.

"A victorious line of march had been prolonged above a thousand miles from the rock of Gibraltar to the banks of the Loire; the repetition of an equal space would have carried the Saracens to the confines of Poland and the Highlands of Scotland; the Rhine is not more impassable than the Nile or Euphrates, and the Arabian fleet might have sailed without a naval combat into the mouth of the Thames. Perhaps the interpretation of the Qur'an would now be taught in the schools of Oxford, and her pulpits might demonstrate to a circumcised people the sanctity and truth of the revelation of Muhammed."

But I see now that the historians must simply have been Ben's ancestors now that you have spoken. Sava

[Buster Crabbe's Uncle]

I think PLATO's got it.

[Sava]

I don't know how that helps your case. The day after the battle not everyone will be muslim. thnx try again

[Sava]

sounds like his source is an islamaphobic nutjob haha