Arizona's new anti-gay law.

[Aeson]

Reality, DaShi. Thanks to capitalism, some opportunist will fill in the gap. In fact, the overwhelming majority of business owners would never be so self-destructive as to turn down business over petty bull****. There's no great crisis that needs solving, so there's no reason to **** all over the first amendment.

You:

a) greatly underestimate bigotry. The term is by definition something that overrides rational assessment of best interest.
b) wholly ignore the effect of a majority population that wants an establishment not to serve X minority and is bigotted enough to boycot those who serve X.
c) seem to not understand why there's no great crisis that needs solving ... it's partly because of laws that have disallowed the effects of A from affecting business and made shopowners immune to B. (Among other things of course.)

[Aeson]

Reality, DaShi. Thanks to capitalism, some opportunist will fill in the gap. In fact, the overwhelming majority of business owners would never be so self-destructive as to turn down business over petty bull****. There's no great crisis that needs solving, so there's no reason to **** all over the first amendment.

You:

a) greatly underestimate bigotry. The term is by definition something that overrides rational assessment of best interest.
b) wholly ignore the effect of a majority population that wants an establishment not to serve X minority and is bigotted enough to boycot those who serve X.
c) seem to not understand why there's no great crisis that needs solving ... it's partly because of laws that have disallowed the effects of A from affecting business and made shopowners immune to B. (Among other things of course.)

[Felch]

I think that's a crude and unfair mischaracterization of most small town Americans.

[MrFun]

So the gay kid born in rural America should just be run out of town by bigots or be forced to hide their sexuality? Remember that in many of these small towns there's only 1 of most services ... 1 gas station. 1 barber. 1 supermarket. 1 diner. 1 hardware store. And even if you travel the 30 miles to the next town, you're probably going to have shopkeepers with the same religious views as in the last town.

Are you 100% cool with what boils down to forced relocation for homosexuals and ethnic minorities from many places in small-town America?

[pchang]

I think that's a crude and unfair mischaracterization of most small town Americans.

Having been to many small towns in America as an ethnic minority, I think it is fair.

[MrFun]

I think that's a crude and unfair mischaracterization of most small town Americans.

Having grown up in a rural town myself, I can attest to the fact that people in towns like that are people friendly; if you're white, straight, and Christian.

[Aeson]

I think that's a crude and unfair mischaracterization of most small town Americans.

It's not about demeaning small town America ... there are plenty of bigots in big cities ... it's about simple math dealing with the number of options.

The fewer business establishments that are in a town, the greater effect a single shop-owner would have on the community. Smaller towns are obviously the places with fewer business establishments. When you're talking about 4 or 5 businesses, it's much more likely that all of them would be run by people who wouldn't serve X than if you have 400 or 500.

This is doubly true because the social/religious makeup of small towns tend to be much more homogenous than in large cities. In one small town everyone might be friendly and tolerant of other ethnicities/sexuality/whatever. In another you might find a large majority is bigotted against X. This won't happen in a large city where there is much more diversity in regards to ethnicity, social/religious groups ...

[molly bloom]

What would you know about humor? You don't even know how to spell it.

That's lame, even by your abysmally low standards.

[molly bloom]

People in America value religious freedoms more than they value fascism.

All you've demonstrated is that some people, on the basis of their religious preference, value discriminating AGAINST people more than they value freedom FROM discrimination.

And yes, that includes fascist schemes to force businesses to wear the star of David.

? Fascist in the way the Roman Catholic Church was fascist ? It made Jews wear a device to signify they were Jewish. Are you calling your own dear Vatican fascist ?

You should confess your sin.

[molly bloom]

Far better for the business to be able to brand themselves as bigots. That way the gay man can take his beard with him to buy the cake, get pictures of the baker making the deal with the husband, the cake being cut by the happy couple ... then "expose" the baker as being gay-friendly on various Christian forums across the internet.

The Christians can then sue for distress, etc, for having their lack of gaydar revealed and for unwillingly providing a cake for a gay wedding.

What about an atheist wedding ?

Would they provide a cake for that ?

What happens when they accidentally furnish a bigamist with a wedding cake ?


Imagine their distress.

[molly bloom]

What if all bakers/barbers/Hooters in your city don't want to serve you because you are Catholic? How about 9 out of 10? How about you have to go to the next state to get these and other services? Where's the line?

As I recall, one of the signatories on the Declaration of Independence was a Roman Catholic- who was not enfranchised in his home state.

Of course that sort of thing had changed by John F. Kennedy's time.

[MrFun]

Why do some Christian business owners only cherry pick certain types of sinners to refuse service too, anyway? Why not deny services to ANY or ALL types of sinners, and not just gay people?

Oh yeah. Because they'd go out of fuckin' business because everyone is basically a sinner in some shape or form.

Besides, their bigotry seems to only be against gay people. Not those who are divorced, have had premarital sex, work on the Sabbath, eats pork or ham, and so on.

[Guynemer]

Because gay people are icky, Mr. Fun. You should know that better than anyone.

[MrFun]

Anyway, my fiance Neal and I have been planning for our wedding and reception.

We would not want to force a known anti-gay photographer or wedding cake designer to provide their services, anyway. Why would we want someone who hates us, provide us services?

Of course, if Neal and I were living in a more rural area of America, as Aeson pointed out, then maybe we would not be able to have a choice.

[MrFun]

Because gay people are icky, Mr. Fun. You should know that better than anyone.