Do poly atheists know the Bible?

[Ban Kenobi]

Why would we expect an explanation from a fictional being? The writer probably planned on offering an explanation when he started the story but got writer's block and just had God recite a nice poem with lots of imagery instead. There is no explanation for suffering. The universe simply doesn't care if we suffer or not.

[Sava]

The universe simply doesn't care if we suffer or not.

disagree

it probably gets off on it

[Kidlicious]

Do you believe in reason?

At gribbler

[Kidlicious]

Riiiight... if I take your belongings and only give them back after you suck up to me I'm obviously not a bully...

"The Lord taketh away..." Do you think this is a message from God or Job's error? What was Job's sin?

[Ban Kenobi]

Do you believe in reason?

At gribbler

Yes.

"The Lord taketh away..." Do you think this is a message from God or Job's error? What was Job's sin?

I'm guessing the answer you're going for is "pride" because having any self-respect is evil.

[Kidlicious]

You believe in reason but not that there is a reason for suffering?

......

Yes pride, self-righteousness, Job doesn't understand why bad things are happening and he blames God. He doesn't curse him like his wife tells him too. In the end, Job still doesn't know why all of the bad happened to him and he stops expecting too. So why do you think the reader should understand why bad things happen, if Job never understood?

[Ban Kenobi]

1. Reason is an ability humans possess. Some suffering is caused by humans, of course, but humans did not invent it.
2. Because using reason to inquire about the nature of the world is a good thing. Also, the idea that even wanting to know why bad things happen is sinful is crazy. If God is really saying "I'm going to let bad things happen to you, and I won't show any mercy unless you worship me and don't ask why I treat you this way" then your god really is a bully. Imagine a man beating his wife and then beating her even harder if she asks why he's hitting her.

[Imran Siddiqui]

When the message a tale sends is, "Trust in God, your wife and children are easily replaced" ... something is wrong with the moral fabric of the tale. It's an insight into how society viewed women and children back then, but not something I'd set my moral compass by.

All is merely transitory, but God is eternal is something I think is a perfectly good moral fabric to the tale. Some dude named Jesus also told some hyperbolic stories that sound harsh at first glace, but have a truthful point behind it. People tended to focus on the truthful point and not the harsh framing, because you know, they don't miss the forest for the trees.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Good try, but no. You crash and burn on the last sentence especially. Good and bad things happen to good and bad people alike, right? No one can say good things happen to good people and/or bad things happen to bad people, right?

I hate to say it (), but Kid is right on here. The oft forgotten, by my favorite, part of the Book of Job is right after God shows up and tells Job's friends that they have no clue what is going on either. In that era, of course, there was a belief that if bad things happened to you, you deserved it - you did something that God was angry about. And in that era, Job's friends would have had many supporters. God, though, comes in in the end and says, no, you are wrong - he didn't deserve it and their understanding of God is deficient.

IIRC, the prologue was added to the poem at a later date as a framing device (I'm guessing because people would wonder why God wasn't stopping Satan - after all, bad things only happen to bad people - and it would have obscured the final point).

[Kidlicious]

1. Reason is an ability humans possess. Some suffering is caused by humans, of course, but humans did not invent it.
2. Because using reason to inquire about the nature of the world is a good thing. Also, the idea that even wanting to know why bad things happen is sinful is crazy. If God is really saying "I'm going to let bad things happen to you, and I won't show any mercy unless you worship me and don't ask why I treat you this way" then your god really is a bully. Imagine a man beating his wife and then beating her even harder if she asks why he's hitting her.

What reason do you have to believe that humans have the ability to know truth?

You're missing the point of Job. We don't know why Job suffered. Job never even knew. Job was not bullied into anything. In fact, Job became one who accepted the fact that God doesn't bully us. How can you bully someone and convince them that you aren't bullying them?

[Ban Kenobi]

1. I have certain assumptions that lead me to believe I can learn things about the world. I don't believe I'm a brain in a jar being fed fictional information. My experiences are reasonably close to reality.
2. You can bully someone without them believing you're bullying them. Ever heard of Stockholm Syndrome? And even if Job had thought he was being bullied, he would have kept his mouth shut once it was clear God was pissed with him for asking questions and thinking critically.

[Kidlicious]

1. I have certain assumptions that lead me to believe I can learn things about the world. I don't believe I'm a brain in a jar being fed fictional information. My experiences are reasonably close to reality.

So you assume these things but you understand that there has to be a reason for them, right? Or not?

2. You can bully someone without them believing you're bullying them. Ever heard of Stockholm Syndrome? And even if Job had thought he was being bullied, he would have kept his mouth shut once it was clear God was pissed with him for asking questions and thinking critically.

You believe they even knew what Stockholm Syndrom was back then? How can the author talk about something he didn't know about?

[Uncle Sparky]

kid - Know thyself.

[Kidlicious]

kid - Know thyself.

How is that possible?

[Aeson]

All is merely transitory, but God is eternal is something I think is a perfectly good moral fabric to the tale. Some dude named Jesus also told some hyperbolic stories that sound harsh at first glace, but have a truthful point behind it. People tended to focus on the truthful point and not the harsh framing, because you know, they don't miss the forest for the trees.

In this case the "forest" (eg. God's will) it's an intangible, unknowable thing. So missing it is only natural. What is tangible though is that the source telling us to believe in this intangible, unknowable thing is displaying certain types of ignorance (complete disregard for anyone who isn't a rich male) that makes me very much less inclined to view them as authorities on morality. It's like listening to Rush Limbaugh tell you to trust him about what's moral, even though he's clearly in the wrong about women, minorities and many other things.