Saudis contemplating downgrade in U.S. relations-Compare Obama to Carter

[Sava]

Fundamentalist Islam is a natural ally to American conservatism. During the Russian Afghan occupation, Reagan loved the idea of supporting the Islamists because they believed in God.

[kentonio]

The Iranians are more than just slightly worse.

No they really are not. As an American you should probably go and remind yourself of the nationalities of the people who flew planes into the World Trade Center on 9/11 if you really need reminding of what kind of 'friends' the Saudis are to you.

[giblets]

Why would we judge an entire country by the actions of a few individuals?

[kentonio]

Because it isn't the actions of a few individuals. If you searched really hard to try and find the absolute ideological enemies of America, you'd end up standing at the doorstep of Wahhabism. The Saudis maintaining an alliance with the US is right up there with the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact for sheer irony.

[C0ckney]

iran is a bastion of democracy and liberal values compared to saudi arabia.

[MOBIUS]

With friends like the Saudis, who needs enemies? They've needed to be taken down more than a few notches for over a decade now.

So basically you're agreeing with Obama...?

[MOBIUS]

Because it isn't the actions of a few individuals. If you searched really hard to try and find the absolute ideological enemies of America, you'd end up standing at the doorstep of Wahhabism. The Saudis maintaining an alliance with the US is right up there with the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact for sheer irony.

True that. Iran is the country we should be natural allies with. After all, the US has already done them a favour by getting rid of Saddam.

There has been a major shift towards moderacy in the leadership and there is a huge educated liberal middle class, hence the failed green revolution a few years back.

Obviously they're still butt-hurt over the way the US shafted them with Mossadegh and the Shah, and the US' blind support for Israel, but these are all things that could be worked through in the interests of peace in the Middle East.

[kentonio]

Judging by opinion polls in Iran and the US, the Iranian public would be much more open to re-establishing relations than the Americans would.

[Dinner]

The Iranians are more than just slightly worse.

I don't remember Iranians flying planes into buildings on 9/11. I do remember a hell of a lot of Saudis do that as well as a few Yemenis who are the same worthless tribal barbarians but without the benefit of oil to enable their moocher lifestyles.

[Dinner]

Judging by opinion polls in Iran and the US, the Iranian public would be much more open to re-establishing relations than the Americans would.

Not least of all because the sanctions are working, they're cause massive economic harm and even out of control inflation, yet the Iranian government is still playing dishonest games and is attempting to play for time instead of honestly giving up their nuclear weapons program. Screw them.

Sure, I like that Obama is giving peace a chance and is willing to explore diplomatic options but really they need to just totally give up because they're the ones facing economic Armageddon and I want a hard line where they either unconditionally surrender or they get ever tighter sanctions followed by direct military strikes. I am generally against foreign military adventures (these days; meaning post my Iraq war experience) but one thing we can never allow is Mullahs in Iran with nukes. I'd rather nuke the whole damn country then allow that because they truly are one of the largest terrorist sponsors on Earth and a line in the sand must be drawn. Here and no further or you die.

[MOBIUS]

Judging by opinion polls in Iran and the US, the Iranian public would be much more open to re-establishing relations than the Americans would.

IMHO it would be the best way to destabilise the leadership of the country and allow further moderates into government. Fight the extremists from within by winning the hearts and minds of the people.

[MOBIUS]

Yet the Iranian government is still playing dishonest games and is attempting to play for time instead of honestly giving up their nuclear weapons program. Screw them.

I want a hard line where they either unconditionally surrender or they get ever tighter sanctions followed by direct military strikes. I am generally against foreign military adventures (these days; meaning post my Iraq war experience) but one thing we can never allow is Mullahs in Iran with nukes. I'd rather nuke the whole damn country then allow that because they truly are one of the largest terrorist sponsors on Earth and a line in the sand must be drawn. Here and no further or you die.

And with talk like that, that is why I imagine they'd want nuclear weapons...

[kentonio]

IMHO it would be the best way to destabilise the leadership of the country and allow further moderates into government. Fight the extremists from within by winning the hearts and minds of the people.

Yep, it's ultimately the only way to win.

[Dinner]

And with talk like that, that is why I imagine they'd want nuclear weapons...

Let them want all they want but let them know they won't live to see it. THAT is the only thing those terrorists will respect. Obey or suffer the horrible consequences. THAT they will understand while reasonable dialogue they will only view as weakness.

[MOBIUS]

I hate to say it, Oerdin, but you're sounding like a worse right-wing nutjob than the right-wing nutjobs you profess to dislike...