Israel in Lebanon 1983

[Al B. Sure!]

So this lesson was about proving the modern ROE are wrong?

And great to see Lieutenants thinking that with a small group of marines they'd want to open fire on 3 tanks. Thank god for NCOs.

They had anti-tank assets.

And it's hard to not justify escalation of force when people are pointing weapons at you and/or firing rounds in the ground 30m from your position. You wouldn't feel sufficiently threatened to retaliate or do you only escalate force when (British) are killed?

[MikeH]

They had anti-tank assets.

And it's hard to not justify escalation of force when people are pointing weapons at you and/or firing rounds in the ground 30m from your position. You wouldn't feel sufficiently threatened to retaliate or do you only escalate force when (British) are killed?

I'm sure I'd feel massively threatened.

I guess this is why it's so vital that even lowly squad leaders understand the geopolitical implications of returning fire, and presumably why they are training you about this incident.

[Hauldren Collider]

Hmm, I'm sure the Israelis who have faced several existential wars over the last century were just ****ting themselves over a mouthy marine with a pistol.

QFT

[Felch]

They had anti-tank assets.

And it's hard to not justify escalation of force when people are pointing weapons at you and/or firing rounds in the ground 30m from your position. You wouldn't feel sufficiently threatened to retaliate or do you only escalate force when (British) are killed?

From Amritsar to Bogside, the British policy has always been to shoot only when their enemies can't shoot back.

[regexcellent]

Oh tell me, what anti-tank weapons did they have? The LAW?

I remember reading a 1980s Army report on the M72 LAW, M47 Dragon, and BGM-71 TOW, which read some thing along the lines of "few soldiers have confidence in the M47 to defeat modern armor threats, and none have confidence in the LAW."

This, along with the pathetic performance of the Viper missile, is what led to us adopting a Swedish anti-tank rocket that actually works.

The chance that their shoulder-launched missiles would have penetrated the armor of an Israeli tank, even at close range, approaches zero.

[MikeH]

From Amritsar to Bogside, the British policy has always been to shoot only when their enemies can't shoot back.

US policy has always been the equivalent of Nuke them from orbit.

[MikeH]

Oh tell me, what anti-tank weapons did they have? The LAW?

I remember reading a 1980s Army report on the M72 LAW, M47 Dragon, and BGM-71 TOW, which read some thing along the lines of "few soldiers have confidence in the M47 to defeat modern armor threats, and none have confidence in the LAW."

This, along with the pathetic performance of the Viper missile, is what led to us adopting a Swedish anti-tank rocket that actually works.

The chance that their shoulder-launched missiles would have penetrated the armor of an Israeli tank, even at close range, approaches zero.

That's what I learnt playing Twilight 2000...

Unless their anti-tank assets was a flight of A-10s...

[regexcellent]

We didn't do that in Grenada or Panama (or Afghanistan, even the initial invasion). We did do that in the 1991 Gulf War though. 2003 Iraq War is debatable.

[MikeH]

I was just countering his preposterous claim.

[The Mad Monk]

US policy has always been the equivalent of Nuke them from orbit.

Maxim 37: There is no 'overkill'. There is only 'open fire' and 'time to reload'.

[Hauldren Collider]

Thing is, overwhelming firepower is actually a central tenet of US Army strategy and always has been since the days of Sherman.

[MRT144]

That should probably tell you the regard people hold Lebanon and other countries in the area in.

Lebanon has great food and skiing. What is there not to love?

[Sava]

a flight of A-10s...

[regexcellent]

People say the A-10 looks unsexy but I think it is the monster truck to the Lamborghini that is the F-22. It oozes masculinity. It spurts hot semen 30mm out of its massive phallus cannon.

[The Mad Monk]

Obama wants marines to wear girly hats.