Israel in Lebanon 1983

[Al B. Sure!]

We had a case discussion yesterday about a Capt. Johnson who led a group of Marines and Lebanese Army defending a sector and road checkpoint in vicinity of the Beirut International Airport. The case was the product of a year of research including an interview with Capt. Johnson.

Over several weeks, the IDF ****ed with the Marines, demanding to enter their lines, hitting a Marine with a jeep, having stand-offs with Marines with the IDF soldiers raising weapons against Marines and officers, daily opening fire on the ground just in front of the Marines' positions (within 30m), and finally charging the fence with 3 tanks where Capt. Johnson courageously jumped on the tank commander's vehicle, unholstered his pistol and demanded the IDF commander to turn around.

I had previously been aware of Capt. Johnson and the tanks but not of the other numerous incidents. Fortunately, no lives were lost.

In the discussion, my fellow lieutenants were incredulous that Capt. Johnson never ordered his men to open fire on the Israelis or at least escalated force because it seemed long past due. The IDF did not behave like US allies but as enemies.


The case is interesting because I find it unfathomable that anyone could be so vehemently pro-Israel given their record of behavior.

[DinoDoc]

The case is interesting because I find it unfathomable that anyone could be so vehemently pro-Israel given their record of behavior.

That should probably tell you the regard people hold Lebanon and other countries in the area in.

[Sava]

Of all the things Israel has done... you complain about this?

[PLATO]

Of all the things Israel has done... you complain about this?

I think it was the time relevance of the discussion, don't you? Or were you expecting him to say, "Had a discussion about Captain Johnson yesterday. Isn't it horrible that Israelis bulldoze homes?"

******.

[Sava]

I think it was the time relevance of the discussion, don't you? Or were you expecting him to say, "Had a discussion about Captain Johnson yesterday. Isn't it horrible that Israelis bulldoze homes?"

******.

Maybe if Alby hadn't concluded with this:

I find it unfathomable that anyone could be so vehemently pro-Israel given their record of behavior.

... and not actually mentioned their record of behavior beyond this little anecdote

[Imran Siddiqui]

Does he have to spell it all out for you?

[Aeson]

I'm pretty sure the OP is just a mode of transport for the point that one US Marine > entire army of another nation. Why Al ... who is a US Marine ... would make such a point is beyond me though ...

[Sava]

HUR HUR HUR MARINES DURRRR

[regexcellent]

The case is interesting because I find it unfathomable that anyone could be so vehemently pro-Israel given their record of behavior.

Aren't you the one who used to go by the username Albert Speer?

BTW the Israelis weren't the ones who ****ing bombed the barracks; it was the people they were fighting who did that. US marines who died because of Israeli action: 0. US marines who died because of Hezbollah action: 241.

edit:

This is a really ****ing stupid cartoon. I guarantee the Israelis weren't afraid of one ~*~US marine~*~. Maybe with the international political consequences of that ~*~marine~*~ getting hurt.

[The Mad Monk]

HUR HUR HUR MARINES DURRRR

A master troll, reduced to this. Pitiful.

[Sava]

Maybe in the morning. Plus, I find it hard to say bad things about the armed forces, even if I'm trolling.

[kentonio]

Hmm, I'm sure the Israelis who have faced several existential wars over the last century were just ****ting themselves over a mouthy marine with a pistol.

[kentonio]

Especially as 2 of the 34 victims of the Liberty were marines too.

[Al B. Sure!]

I hope you don't hold the same view as your fellow lieutenants...

I knew the story already so I knew that not escalating force worked. Everyone else wanted to open fire and many were 'complaining' afterward that he didn't. You have to understand, this happened over several weeks in which the IDF did daily supposed 'recons by fire' in which they fired upon the ground mere meters from the Marines' positions. The ROE's in Lebanon were much stricter but hostile intent was certainly demonstrated by the IDF. A modern ROE would necessitate the Marines opening fire.

Aren't you the one who used to go by the username Albert Speer?

BTW the Israelis weren't the ones who ****ing bombed the barracks; it was the people they were fighting who did that. US marines who died because of Israeli action: 0. US marines who died because of Hezbollah action: 241.

Just because someone is fighting bad guys doesn't mean they aren't bad guys, too. I wonder how you'd feel about the situation if it was Lebanese Army and not the IDF.

[MikeH]

A modern ROE would necessitate the Marines opening fire.

So this lesson was about proving the modern ROE are wrong?

And great to see Lieutenants thinking that with a small group of marines they'd want to open fire on 3 tanks. Thank god for NCOs.