Two licensed conceal/carry idiots kill each other.

[regexcellent]

http://www.nationalmemo.com/the-pers...ur-gun-is-you/

You're far, far, far more likely to use the gun on a family member or yourself than on anyone else (those two catagories take up ~75% of all shootings; suicides make up ~60% just by themselves). Especially compared to a robber or violent attacker. That's just a fact and is not open to debate because this has been true for as long as anyone has kept records and studied how guns were used. That's true even if you don't like it.

More people die in the US from firearms than in motor vehicle accidents and ~3/4ths of those are either suicides or shootings of family members.

I was disputing it being more likely that you'd gun down people you don't know on the street like what happened in the story, not killing yourself or whatever. Also, you're way more likely to use the guns for mundane purposes like putting holes in pieces of paper than shooting anyone at all.

Why is Chicago the murder capital of the United States then?

If this study is to be believed CC permit holders appear to commit less crime than the public at large at least with in the State of Texas, why is that given the "facts" you failed to support earlier?

Incidentally Chicago will have concealed carry soon if it doesn't already. The courts ordered the Illinois legislature to legalize it and now it's shall-issue.

[Sava]

The graphic is stupid bull****; but if he wants to post something citing Illinois, NY and NJ as less violent than California, let him feel free.

YEAH NUMBERS ARE BULL****

and so are facts

reality has a well known liberal bias

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

You just don't get it. By Oerdin saying "Fact", that makes it a fact. References, schmeferences. Who needs them when you have "Fact"?

This is an undeniable universal truth only in opposition. When Oerdin says "FACT" it means a universal "The following is flawed and incorrect in some easily verifiable fashion".

[Sava]

Why is Chicago the murder capital of the United States then?

If this study is to be believed CC permit holders appear to commit less crime than the public at large at least with in the State of Texas, why is that given the "facts" you failed to support earlier?

Interesting. I've seen lots of studies by pro gun groups. Unfortunately, no comprehensive study regarding CC permit holders exists... for any state.

But aside from that, there were 1100 murders in Texas in 2011. And according to the stats you provided, only 461 convictions.

If we're going to be serious (for once), CC permit holders are a very small percentage of the population. Even in Texas, they are around 2.2%. 584,000 is the number I've seen. Texas has 26.2 million people.

I don't suspect 2.2% percent of the population walking around with guns is going to have a significant effect on violent crime rates either way. Most violence in America is gang related... with, I would imagine, domestic violence being the second biggest cause. I don't think any gang members anywhere are concerned with whether or not some dip****s in the middle of a trailer park somewhere are licensed to carry guns in public.

[Lorizael]

The courts ordered the Illinois legislature to legalize it and now it's shall-issue.

Oh, so that's what that means. There's a kid in my DiffEq class who has a sticker that says "Maryland Shall Issue" on his laptop. Now I know he's a gun nut. Cool.

[Hauldren Collider]

... saying it just because it feels right?

Saying it because it's a statistical fact.

[regexcellent]

Oh, so that's what that means. There's a kid in my DiffEq class who has a sticker that says "Maryland Shall Issue" on his laptop. Now I know he's a gun nut. Cool.

Shall-issue means the state must issue you the permit if you meet the qualifications (usually no criminal background, no history of domestic abuse, sound mental health, pass written and practical tests). May issue means local law enforcement can turn you down for arbitrary reasons. That's supposed to let the sheriff say "hmm this fellow is not an upstanding character but I don't have anything on him, no permit" but in practice it just means some counties wind up being no-issue areas for concealed carry, and in others the police rubber stamp it.

There's been a longstanding fight in the courts to try to get Maryland to be a shall-issue state for concealed carry. Getting a permit anywhere in Maryland is typically difficult.

[Sava]

Saying it because it's a statistical fact.

You need evidence to make such a claim. None exists.

So if you want to post a "statistical fact", be my guest.

[Guynemer]

Which shows either A) how much you're medicated or B) how much you SHOULD be medicated.

Have you ever been to rural Michigan, Tex?

[Lorizael]

Shall-issue means the state must issue you the permit if you meet the qualifications (usually no criminal background, no history of domestic abuse, sound mental health, pass written and practical tests). May issue means local law enforcement can turn you down for arbitrary reasons. That's supposed to let the sheriff say "hmm this fellow is not an upstanding character but I don't have anything on him, no permit" but in practice it just means some counties wind up being no-issue areas for concealed carry, and in others the police rubber stamp it.

There's been a longstanding fight in the courts to try to get Maryland to be a shall-issue state for concealed carry. Getting a permit anywhere in Maryland is typically difficult.

I see. But doesn't publicly declaring your support for concealed carry permits kind of defeat the point?

[rah]

Have you ever been to rural Michigan, Tex?

I had to laugh at this. My brother and I were at a golf tournament in rural Michigan and before we teed off our host opened his trunk and pulled out a large bag of deer jerky and passed it around after telling everyone that he had personally killed the deer and prepped the jerky himself. And after the round we went in to the banquet afterwards and viewed the prizes for the tournament. Normally it's a mix of golf clubs and apparel with a golf trip tossed in. Imagine our surprise when we viewed the tables and they were laden with rifles, hunting apparel and a daddy daughter hunting trip. We weren't in Chicago any more.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Take out the Negroes and Mexicans those numbers will be different.

'Cause New Jersey has none of those

[Sava]

You guys must need medication.

[Imran Siddiqui]

I had to laugh at this. My brother and I were at a golf tournament in rural Michigan and before we teed off our host opened his trunk and pulled out a large bag of deer jerky and passed it around after telling everyone that he had personally killed the deer and prepped the jerky himself. And after the round we went in to the banquet afterwards and viewed the prizes for the tournament. Normally it's a mix of golf clubs and apparel with a golf trip tossed in. Imagine our surprise when we viewed the tables and they were laden with rifles, hunting apparel and a daddy daughter hunting trip. We weren't in Chicago any more.

Isn't rural Michigan like NRA Central?

[regexcellent]

You guys must need medication.

HOW DARE YOU SAY I NEED MEDICATION MOTHER****ER *grabs shotgun and fires in the air screaming* EIN ZWEI DREI VIER