Pope sends direct message to Ben

[rah]

I have a history degree. All history is propaganda (even if only some of it is labelled such).

It's not that History is all propaganda, it's just that it can be used that way. As a History major I would expect you to be able to tell the difference, but I guess that's a bad assumption.

[rah]

Yes, As I kind of mentioned, we lived together for a few years before getting married. I think it helped. (some studies seemed to say differently)
Good luck.

[kentonio]

And Ken, while I agree with almost everything you posted in this thread and disagree with almost everything that Ben has posted (no surprise)
I am not completely in agreement that committed living together is the same as marriage. I been both. A few committed and one marriage.
While ending a committed arrangement can be messy, I divorce is messier because of the legal aspects.
All relationships have ups and downs, and I think the messier aspect of divorce made me stick it out through one really tough time. BUT I can't say that for sure.
It probably shouldn't make a difference. The committed arrangement that I terminated would have been terminated regardless of whether we were married. And my last committed relationship turned into marriage. (over 25 years and counting)

So while I think they're very close, I think there's a slight difference.

Ah fair enough, good to hear from someone whose done both.

I'm still hoping that one day I'll get around to tying the knot with some poor unfortunate woman, but I think trying a committed relationship first seems like the only sensible approach to at least get a sense of whether its likely to last.

[Ben Kenobi]

I assume you're referencing the Bible

I have a history degree. All history is propaganda (even if only some of it is labelled such).

[rah]

I know propaganda when I see it. I get to study the best.

I assume you're referencing the Bible.

And Ken, while I agree with almost everything you posted in this thread and disagree with almost everything that Ben has posted (no surprise)
I am not completely in agreement that committed living together is the same as marriage. I been both. A few committed and one marriage.
While ending a committed arrangement can be messy, I divorce is messier because of the legal aspects.
All relationships have ups and downs, and I think the messier aspect of divorce made me stick it out through one really tough time. BUT I can't say that for sure.
It probably shouldn't make a difference. The committed arrangement that I terminated would have been terminated regardless of whether we were married. And my last committed relationship turned into marriage. (over 25 years and counting)

So while I think they're very close, I think there's a slight difference.

[Ben Kenobi]

Your point was that kentonio's opinion doesn't count because he isn't married surely the fact that married people agree with him is relevant to that? Not in your world of course. Carry on.

Hrm? Kentonio is the one arguing that 'only experience counts', and yet he lacks the experience himself. Then he does the standard argument that everyone who cohabits makes, ie, "some marriages suck so cohabitation is almost as good as the most sucky marriages, ergo there's no substantive difference between the two." "marriage is just a piece of paper, and signifies nothing, yet my longerterm (they make sure to specify length and commitment) is special and should be understood as 'just as good'.

I'm arguing that Marriage has practical benefits true for marriage in general, that the breakup rate for marriage is much less than those who cohabit...

All you said was Dittos, you didn't comment on which specific parts you agreed with, and where you felt I was wrong. The impression I got is that you objected to my understanding of women in general, not that you objected to marriage as a greater commitment than cohabitation.

[MikeH]

Your point was that kentonio's opinion doesn't count because he isn't married surely the fact that married people agree with him is relevant to that? Not in your world of course. Carry on.

[Ben Kenobi]

No, you're ignorant, not objective. I notice you ignored the guy who posted in this thread who is actually married.

What, MikeH? What was there to comment on? All he said was 'Dittos'.

Sure, because the Church of England isn't actually Christian. Ok then.

What exactly is different from the CoE and the cult of the Emperor?

As usual, you can't actually disprove the study in any way, so you claim it's all evil propaganda.

By being overly broad it loses any actual meaning. The study should at least exclude those using contraception for means other than birth control, but no, it doesn't. There's a reason it's so broad, to give good ol propaganda pushers like yourself a stick to beat Catholics over.

I'm pretty sure that what you just said makes absolutely no sense.

I'll repeat, the Church isn't a democracy, ergo whatever the Catholics in America believe means sweet diddly poo wrt Catholic doctrine.

Ah so you only have to follow Christian teachings when it suits you. Now I understand.

Forgiveness comes after repentence.

[MikeH]

Don't post?

[kentonio]

You only need to press reply once, ken.

It's really annoying, it seems to do it after a while if I have the same browser window open for a long time, but then other times it does it even with a fresh window. I'd love to know how to stop it happening.

[MikeH]

I notice you ignored the guy who posted in this thread who is actually married.

I won a little bet with myself that he would ignore it.

[DinoDoc]

You only need to press reply once, ken.

[kentonio]

DP ffs..

[kentonio]

Oddly enough it's the man who's not married who claims his not marriage is the equivalent of marriage. At least I'm objective.

No, you're ignorant, not objective. I notice you ignored the guy who posted in this thread who is actually married.

You were right the first time. Religious, not Christian.

Sure, because the Church of England isn't actually Christian. Ok then.

One, I don't base my arguments on rightness and wrongness of Catholic doctrine based on what an American magazine claims to have seen in a study representing Catholicism as a whole.

Two, this is my discipline, and the study is the biggest pile of crap in quite some time. And I've seen crap.

Three, I know propaganda when I see it. I get to study the best.

As usual, you can't actually disprove the study in any way, so you claim it's all evil propaganda.

Only if one believes the premiss that whatever the majority of American Catholic women who at one point have used contraception counts as the majority of the Catholic church as a whole. Once again - your premiss is flawed. The Church isn't a democracy.

I'm pretty sure that what you just said makes absolutely no sense.

I was amused at the psychoanalysis and I wanted to force you in a Hobbesian choice. It succeeded, as expected.

Sure it did.

When Buffett stops pimping for the death tax and Gates stops pimping condoms, we'll reach an agreement.

Ah so you only have to follow Christian teachings when it suits you. Now I understand.

[Ben Kenobi]

Says the man whose never done either!

Oddly enough it's the man who's not married who claims his not marriage is the equivalent of marriage. At least I'm objective.

CofE like most religious English people.

You were right the first time. Religious, not Christian.

You'd love to be have the strength of millions of Catholics in full agreement with you.

One, I don't base my arguments on rightness and wrongness of Catholic doctrine based on what an American magazine claims to have seen in a study representing Catholicism as a whole.

Two, this is my discipline, and the study is the biggest pile of crap in quite some time. And I've seen crap.

Three, I know propaganda when I see it. I get to study the best.

It demolishes your arguments however when it's shown that despite their beliefs they end up doing exactly what you hate regardless.

Only if one believes the premiss that whatever the majority of American Catholic women who at one point have used contraception counts as the majority of the Catholic church as a whole. Once again - your premiss is flawed. The Church isn't a democracy.

Nice attempt to move the argument onto something irrelevant however, it didn't go unnoticed.

I was amused at the psychoanalysis and I wanted to force you in a Hobbesian choice. It succeeded, as expected.

Why wouldn't he, considering that he was apparently the biggest socialist and liberal of them all. Shame that you can't show a little Jesus-like grace however, and stop your hate. Given that you've already admitted in this thread to hating several people, you're clearly not following Augustine's idea of 'With love for mankind and hatred of sins'.

When Buffett stops pimping for the death tax and Gates stops pimping condoms, we'll reach an agreement.