Pope sends direct message to Ben

[Imran Siddiqui]

Is there a meaningful difference between Anglican and Catholic Doctrine?

Actually yes. They believe in 2 sacraments (Eucharist and Baptism) instead of 7 (I think its seven) and elevate Scripture higher than Tradition (not sola, necessarily). Justification by grace through faith. The whole celibacy of priests and women ordination is considered a doctrinal difference (as is who gets to appoint Bishops, etc - though that's more an ecclesiastic difference than a doctrinal one, IMO).

The Catholic Encyclopedia says:

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01498a.htm

There can be no doubt that the English Reformation is substantially a part of the great Protestant Reformation upheaval of the sixteenth century, and that its doctrine, liturgy, and chief promoters were to a very considerable extent derived from, and influenced by, the Lutheran and Calvinistic movements on the Continent.

[Ben Kenobi]

Is there a meaningful difference between Anglican and Catholic Doctrine?

Right now? Anglicans believe in female priests, abortion, contraception, gay marriage, and have the queen as their head. Some of them reject transubstantiation. Some of their bishops reject Christ. We're talking official heirarchy speaking from official positions.

[DinoDoc]

Is there a meaningful difference between Anglican and Catholic Doctrine?

[Imran Siddiqui]

@ the Anglicans surpassed the Catholics in heresy hunting and Martin Luther executed people (oh, and completely forgetting about the Vatican states) - I almost forgot about the power the Catholic Church held in excommunicating princes and kings !

[kentonio]

It wasn't the Anglican church that saw their heirarchy wiped out. So yes, you are correct here that the Anglicans didn't come close. They surpassed.

Don't start this crap again. Last time you managed to provide no evidence of mass executions other than a few hundred deaths over a century or two.

Oh btw, the Huguenots called and said to tell you to go **** yourself.

[kentonio]

They owned an Empire under the Angevins. And it wasn't until after Catholic emancipation that things really took off for the Victorian era. Coincidence, I think not.

Please don't be ridiculous. If you're seriously trying to argue that Britain wasn't a major power until the 18th century, then you're a bigger dumbass than I thought.

[Ben Kenobi]

Don't act like the Anglicans could come close to matching the bloodthirstiness of the Catholic heresy hunters.

It wasn't the Anglican church that saw their heirarchy wiped out. So yes, you are correct here that the Anglicans didn't come close. They surpassed.

& Luther didn't and couldn't execute anyone.

Small comfort to the dissenters who were, that the Lutherans finally apologized for burning them at the stake.

He wasn't in charge of any state apparatus. I don't think his stinging insults count as an execution. Maybe to your heart?

And the Catholic church was in charge of a state apparatus?

[Imran Siddiqui]

Yes, and? So did Luther for that matter. If you were a dissenter this whole 'reformation club' didn't include you.

Don't act like the Anglicans could come close to matching the bloodthirstiness of the Catholic heresy hunters.

& Luther didn't and couldn't execute anyone. He wasn't in charge of any state apparatus. I don't think his stinging insults count as an execution. Maybe to your heart?

[Ben Kenobi]

And are obviously better for it. At the very least, they abandoned the damnable idea of works righteousness!

They owned an Empire under the Angevins. And it wasn't until after Catholic emancipation that things really took off for the Victorian era. Coincidence, I think not.

[Ben Kenobi]

*ahem* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jan_Hus

Yes, and? So did Luther for that matter. If you were a dissenter this whole 'reformation club' didn't include you.

[Imran Siddiqui]

As silly as founding a new cult of the Emperor? And killing people who refused to worship you? England lived through that idiocy.

And are obviously better for it. At the very least, they abandoned the damnable idea of works righteousness!

[Imran Siddiqui]

Last I checked, they executed dissenters too.

*ahem* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jan_Hus

(among many others)

[Ben Kenobi]

Though, declaring a King to be "Defender of the Faith" and then turning around and not granting him an annulment (which was kind of common in those days among the princely-caste) was a bit silly (Yes, I realize the Pope was scared to death of the Spanish at the time).

As silly as founding a new cult of the Emperor? And killing people who refused to worship you? England lived through that idiocy.

[Ben Kenobi]

It's ok that Ben doesn't consider the "Church of England" to be truly Christian, in his most backwards Catholic viewpoint (even the Papacy has asserted Protestants are Christian). We can simply dust off the good ole' "Pope as Anti-Christ" thing.

Last I checked, they executed dissenters too.

[Felch]

My understanding of the CoE:

Sir Humphrey Appleby: The Queen is inseparable from the Church of England.
Jim Hacker: And what about God?
Sir Humphrey Appleby: I think he is what is called an optional extra.