Pope sends direct message to Ben

[Sava]

'Don't fornicate with animals'.

[kentonio]

So how do you interpret when Jesus spells out that Adam and Eve is the model for marriage and that men are to leave their families and cleave to their wife as an endorsement for gay marriage?

Jesus says, "this is what you should do", not, "this is what you shouldn't do".

You answered your own question. He isn't saying that one thing (homosexuality in this case) is prohibited.

So it would be akin to Jesus saying, "eat fish on Friday", and then eating meat anyways and arguing that since fish is meat that any form of meat is ok.

I have no idea what that convoluted mess is supposed to be. If he says 'don't eat fish on friday' then does that also mean eating any meat on a friday is banned? Because that's the logic you used above with your donkey/goat example.

[Ben Kenobi]

Following your logic, not only is eating fish on a friday a sin, but eating any food on a friday is a sin.

Jesus says, "this is what you should do", not, "this is what you shouldn't do". So it would be akin to Jesus saying, "eat fish on Friday", and then eating meat anyways and arguing that since fish is meat that any form of meat is ok.

[Sava]

Adam and Eve is the model for marriage

I'm only to marry a woman who was cloned from my rib? Our children are to inbreed?

[Ben Kenobi]

I'd intepret that as Jesus saying don't fornicate with goats. If he wanted to ban sex with donkeys as well, then surely he'd say 'Don't fornicate with animals'. When people specifically mention something, it's usually because they want to specify that particular thing.

So how do you interpret when Jesus spells out that Adam and Eve is the model for marriage and that men are to leave their families and cleave to their wife as an endorsement for gay marriage?

[kentonio]

Ah. So if Jesus says, "don't fornicate with goats", you interpret that sex with donkeys is a-ok with Jesus.

I'd intepret that as Jesus saying don't fornicate with goats. If he wanted to ban sex with donkeys as well, then surely he'd say 'Don't fornicate with animals'. When people specifically mention something, it's usually because they want to specify that particular thing.

Following your logic, not only is eating fish on a friday a sin, but eating any food on a friday is a sin.

[Ben Kenobi]

I didn't say what he said was approval, I said what he said wasn't disapproval.

Ah. So if Jesus says, "don't fornicate with goats", you interpret that sex with donkeys is a-ok with Jesus.

[kentonio]

I'm curious how you manage to twist what Jesus said into approval for Gay marriage.

It's right there.

I didn't say what he said was approval, I said what he said wasn't disapproval. If I say 'Men should go and eat potatoes' that's not me saying 'It's a sin for men to eat carrots'.

Or perhaps men and women are complementary to one another.

I'm always complementary towards lesbians.

[Ben Kenobi]

If he believed as you do then why didn't he spell out that being gay is not allowed? Most people are hetrosexual, perhaps he was just speaking to the majority.

I'm curious how you manage to twist what Jesus said into approval for Gay marriage.

It's right there. Men and women were created for each other.

Also he needed to create men and women to make gays and lesbians.

Or perhaps men and women are complementary to one another.

[kentonio]

If Jesus believed as you do, why does he spell it out - that not only is marriage for one man and one woman - but that God also created men and women?

If he believed as you do then why didn't he spell out that being gay is not allowed? Most people are hetrosexual, perhaps he was just speaking to the majority.

What was the purpose behind God creating men AND women?

Most people aren't gay. Also he needed to create men and women to make gays and lesbians.

[Ben Kenobi]

Which clearly isn't explicitly forbidding anything

If Jesus believed as you do, why does he spell it out - that not only is marriage for one man and one woman - but that God also created men and women?

What was the purpose behind God creating men AND women?

[kentonio]

He did. Matthew 19. "He made them male and female and for that reason a man will leave his mother and father and cleave to his wife". Already posted above.

Which clearly isn't explicitly forbidding anything unless you do some reading between the lines thing which then involves your own personal opinions. The quote could just as easy read..

"He made them male and female and for that reason a man will leave his mother and father and cleave to his wife, except on saturdays when he goes out with his boyfriend"

If god exists then he knew people would be confused today by all this, so why didn't he make it clearer if he actually cared so much about it?

[Ben Kenobi]

the task of thinking for oneself is too great to overcome.

Question, if everyone should believe that homosexuality isn't sinful, how do you square this with independence? You're arguing for inter-dependency.

[Ben Kenobi]

If Jesus wanted to explicitly forbid homosexuality, why would he not do so

He did. Matthew 19. "He made them male and female and for that reason a man will leave his mother and father and cleave to his wife". Already posted above.

[kentonio]

God moves in mysterious ways Sava. :desire: