A Brief History of Hauldren Collider

[The Mad Monk]

It's only criminalizing them if they take the aid and try and sell it. Should we stop feeding starving people in third world countries because warlords sometimes steal the food?

Am I talking about stopping the program?

edit: Also: if it's cash, there's no need to sell it. It's cash.

[The Mad Monk]

You've never given me an honest straightforward answer to a question I've asked you a number of times in the past. What happens if a poor person makes a bad choice, or has a really bad string of luck and ends up in a situation where that simple cash benefit is gone? How low exactly are you willing to watch people fall by not trying to ensure that some baseline living standards are maintained? It's the same question I asked you when Ryan wanted to gut Medicare.

I don't know, how do people on unemployment manage it?

[Hauldren Collider]

Easy to condemn hundreds of thousands to starve when your mummy and daddy are rich, isn't it.

Uh, you couldn't starve in America if you tried, dufus. Food's so abundant in this country people give it away in sufficient quantities that obesity is a problem among homeless people.

[The Mad Monk]

Actually, you can. My cousin managed it in NJ two years ago. Living under the boardwalk. He had foodstamps, sold them for booze. He also had special housing, but couldn't follow the rules, let too many of his friends stay over too often. He was kind hearted that way. So he died under the boardwalk.

[Aeson]

I think most people would have less inclination to give (via charity or voting for platforms including that taxation) if it's cash without strings, and for good reason. I give bread (or a job) to those who approach me for help, not cash without strings.

[The Mad Monk]

When you give them a job, does their pay have strings, beyond the completion of the job?

[DaShi]

You mean, beyond the obvious string of them completing the job? Way to undermine your own point.

[DaShi]

Uh, you couldn't starve in America if you tried, dufus. Food's so abundant in this country people give it away in sufficient quantities that obesity is a problem among homeless people.

Actually, obesity is a problem among the poor because of the poor quality of food available to them.

Since you believe so strongly in these cash transfers, it would benefit you to research poverty and how successful giving cash without strings has been successful. Because right now, you seem to just be making stuff up. Is that what we should design policy around? Made up facts?

[DaShi]

What's interesting is that giving cash to the poor has a huge, obvious problem. Yet, HC and TMM are completely ignoring that to support cash transfers. Instead they are focusing on minor problems with other systems currently in place. Also, interesting, their quibbles about the exceptions in those programs tacitly indicate that they are doing pretty well.

[Aeson]

When you give them a job, does their pay have strings, beyond the completion of the job?

I often give in-kind bonuses from the crops on top of the agreed-upon wage. I have given use of equipment as a bonus as well. This allows me to give more than I could otherwise, since I'm often out of cash and there are other costs involved in selling the crops / renting the equipment.

The idea that people should give other people money without any sort of considerations involved is absurd.

(I'm pissed at DaShi for taking the good response )

[DaShi]

I should have said, "If you give someone a dollar with a string tied to it, does that mean the dollar has a string tied to it, beyond the string already tied to it?" Live and learn.

[Tuberski]

I was wrong, Utah history was more interesting...

ACK!

[notyoueither]

We do pretty well giving people mostly cash. Healthcare costs them nothing, and there are some subsidies paid to some landlords in some cases though.

[The Mad Monk]

I often give in-kind bonuses from the crops on top of the agreed-upon wage. I have given use of equipment as a bonus as well. This allows me to give more than I could otherwise, since I'm often out of cash and there are other costs involved in selling the crops / renting the equipment.

The idea that people should give other people money without any sort of considerations involved is absurd.

(I'm pissed at DaShi for taking the good response )

What sort of considerations should be made, then?

[Aeson]

What sort of considerations should be made, then?

Whatever the people giving the money want to make (at least so long as it's legal and consentual of course).

If people want to feed people who need food, the considerations should be that the people receiving the help:

a) need the food.
b) get the food.

Now, if people want to give people cash without strings, the considerations should be:

a) nothing.
b) they get the cash.

But that isn't generally what people want to give.