Obama’s crackdown views leaks as aiding enemies of U.S.

[kentonio]

Communication and information involving non-nationals in other countries. Civil rights are always about protecting people from their own govt. Protecting people from other govts is a matter of defense, counter-espionage and foreign policy by the govts in the countries in question.

Do you honestly believe that this stuff hasn't been used to spy on US citizens basically at will? There have already been numerous stories leaking out about how the process for getting approval for domestic tapping is basically nothing more than a rubber stamp.

[Colon™]

Do you honestly believe that this stuff hasn't been used to spy on US citizens basically at will? There have already been numerous stories leaking out about how the process for getting approval for domestic tapping is basically nothing more than a rubber stamp.

That was not what I was talking about. Perhaps you meant to quote another post of mine?

For instance, Snowden revealed an operation by the British to bug the G8 conference. Dirty and underhanded? Sure. Civil rights matter? No.

[DaShi]

Like what? There was a story the other day about a CIA woman who raised concerns about the efficiency of her department within the rules laid out, and found herself on a 'potential threat' list which basically ****ed her. She then revealed in a polygraph that she was intending to write a book (again allowed within the CIA if they approve the material). They confiscated her computers, deleted all her writing and tried to have her prosecuted. She has now published her book after CIA vetting anyway.

I don't know anything about that. It also doesn't really address what I said.

How can you have an opinion on things which you're not allowed to know? Obviously there has to be a line where revealing national secrets is a crime, but when that secret is 'The government can spy on anyone the hell they chose, and read pretty much any communication sent by anyone in the western world', then that's the kind of stuff people really should know about. The 'aiding a foreign government' stuff feels like little more than a minor sideshow compared to that.

You are mixing up several different issues. 1. The spying system that Snowden leaked concerned metadata, not reading actual communications. 2. Nearly all governments that have the capability do read the communications of non-citizens. If you didn't know this before, it's because you are not informed. The difference with Snowden, is that he revealed specific details that were determined to be classified. What he released has helped no American citizen and hurt the country's image and national security.

[PLATO]

The difference with Snowden, is that he revealed specific details that were determined to be classified. What he released has helped no American citizen and hurt the country's image and national security.

The question is: Is this revelation by Snowden what we needed for a free society to have a debate on balancing security with liberty? Even President Obama said that we had to make some hard choices on this issue. I doubt that the security of the country has been fundamentally undermined, although it probably hurt in some ways. The real take away here should be that now is the time to have this debate. It should be, after all, the will of the people themselves, shouldn't it?

[Sava]

That statement demonstrates your total lack of understanding as to why the government is too incompetent to handle healthcare. Besides which it's way easier to repress people than administer healthcare; rulers have been doing it for thousands of years.

Why was the "why" in your statement so important that you needed to italicize if for emphasis? That's the only thing I don't understand.

Pointing out the logical inconsistencies of Tea Party "logic" is just for fun.

[The Mad Monk]

It isn't quite 1984ish.

The US gov is just piggybacking on the efforts of the private sector (Facebook, Google, etc.).

We surrendered our freedom voluntarily, they didn't take it.

It's time to unsurrender it, then.

[DaShi]

Please stop posting.

[Wezil]

It's time to unsurrender it, then.

Highly unlikely.

We just saw the residents of Boston willingly comply with house arrest because a couple criminals were on the loose.

The fight is lost.

[Felch]

What he released has helped no American citizen and hurt the country's image and national security.

The PATRIOT Act and the NSA hurt America's image, Snowden just told us the truth about them.

[The Mad Monk]

x-Felch'd

Perhaps, but that is no reason to surrender. Again.

[The Mad Monk]

The PATRIOT Act and the NSA hurt America's image, Snowden just told us the truth about them.

Please don't quote him.

[DaShi]

x-Felch'd

Perhaps, but that is no reason to surrender. Again.

We know. Your posts aren't subtle.

[DaShi]

Please don't quote him.

Grow up. Also, post intelligent things every now and then, since I'm asking for miracles.

[DaShi]

The PATRIOT Act and the NSA hurt America's image, Snowden just told us the truth about them.

There are plenty of things that the U.S. does for national security that would hurt our image global if made public. That doesn't mean we shouldn't do them. While there are things we probably shouldn't do as well. However, Snowden didn't leak the things we shouldn't be doing.

[Felch]

He did leak things that we should be honest about. There's no reason for this sort of program to be kept private. Terrorists must assume that the government can spy on them, so it's hardly giving away crucial secrets. Americans need to know the scope of the surveillance state, so that we can be informed citizens.