Margaret Thatcher is dead.

[Alexander's Horse]

God yes - Reaganomics, who can forget that crap, and Star Wars missile defence research, nearly started WW3

Thatcher would have been a one-term wonder if the Argies had set their fuses right at the Falklands landing, it would have been the greatest disaster since Suez

Of course Foxnews and co mention none of this

[Dinner]

In other news Thatcher is still dead and so is Franco.

[kentonio]

Not for much longer, you don't.

Gay marriage is a done deal here. Deal with it.

[Cort Haus]

As an anecdotal point on society, in the UK I didn't know any of my neighbours even after living in the same house for five years.

In London, people get in the lift with you and look at you funny if you say "hello". In Geneva, people look at you funny if you don't say "hello".

Compulsory fake niceness to strangers is over-rated. One of the best things about London, assuming that everyone knows the rules and are behaving themselves, is the zen-like tranquility and calm that the commuter can usually enjoy going to and from work on the public transport. OK, a few Loud iPod Wankers and nattering students/furriners might occasionally cast a pebble in the water, but thank goodness the ghastly requirement of forced conversation is not considered the norm here.

[Cort Haus]

Oh, WTF?

iPod

[molly bloom]

I interpreted your original point to mean that only having 44% of the vote on a 70% turnout means that there is no mandate for change. Is this not a correct interpretation of your point?

I seem to recall at most 77% (or thereabouts) being the highest turnout in a Thatcher election. So less than four fifths of the electorate cast their ballots. Of that figure, the majority went with Labour, Liberals/The Gang Of Four, & the Nationalists.

She never took over 50% of those who went to vote, let alone the potential electorate. I'm trying to type sans the letter that comes between 'C' & 'E' , so apologies for the circumlocutions. Not my laptop, plus I'm housesitting 8 cats, one of which is ex-feral & slightly psycho.

[Krill]

I seem to recall at most 77% (or thereabouts) being the highest turnout in a Thatcher election. So less than four fifths of the electorate cast their ballots. Of that figure, the majority went with Labour, Liberals/The Gang Of Four, & the Nationalists.

She never took over 50% of those who went to vote, let alone the potential electorate. I'm trying to type sans the letter that comes between 'C' & 'E' , so apologies for the circumlocutions. Not my laptop, plus I'm housesitting 8 cats, one of which is ex-feral & slightly psycho.

And that is why I call bull****. In the last 50 years no single party has taken more than 50% of the turnout, the most being 48% of Labour in '66, so if Thatcher with 3 victories in general elections, each time getting more than 42% of the vote, didn't have a mandate to do anything, neither did any other prime minister of the last 50 years including Blair on 43.2% on a turnout of 71% in '97.

I'm not arguing that what she did was "right", "fair", "reasonable" or "destructive" here, merely that what defines a mandate has changed since WW2. And I'm not going to argue that the voting system is any good either.

[molly bloom]

And that is why I call bull****. In the last 50 years no single party has taken more than 50% of the turnout, the most being 48% of Labour in '66, so if Thatcher with 3 victories in general elections, each time getting more than 42% of the vote, didn't have a mandate to do anything, neither did any other prime minister of the last 50 years including Blair on 43.2% on a turnout of 71% in '97.

I'm sorry, but what is your meaning of the term ?

The problem lies in our electoral system, not my comprehension of English. Less than half of those who actually cast votes is not a majority or carte blanche for future actions, whichever lookingglass you view it in.

[kentonio]

I'm sorry, but what is your meaning of the term ?

The problem lies in our electoral system, not my comprehension of English. Less than half of those who actually cast votes is not a majority or carte blanche for future actions, whichever lookingglass you view it in.

It's a plurality of people who actually care enough to vote, and that's plenty. If a mandate required more than we already do, as Krill points out there would simply never be a government with a mandate. Do we really want perpetual coalition government, where a party could receive the most votes and yet be the only party NOT in office?

[molly bloom]

It's a plurality of people who actually care enough to vote, and that's plenty. If a mandate required more than we already do, as Krill points out there would simply never be a government with a mandate. Do we really want perpetual coalition government, where a party could receive the most votes and yet be the only party NOT in office?

If coalition meant mitigating her worst excesses, yes.

A majority of the people who cast their ballots cast them for other than her, or her party. It implies too representation for the Tories in Wales & Scottish constituencies, rather than the bizarre non-appearance of Tory m.p.s in those countries when there was clearly still support for the party in the 80s.

Just because you have a preference for the previous outcomes ain't altering English as it is spoken.

[Krill]

Molly, I actually would prefer PR of some sort, FWIW. But you claimed that Thatcher had no mandate to do any of her reforms, but if that is true then everything Blair did was without a mandate, and I don't see you complaining of the changes he wrought in the UK.

[kentonio]

If coalition meant mitigating her worst excesses, yes.

So you want to change the entire electoral system because we had one extremely popular Prime Minister you disagreed with?

A majority of the people who cast their ballots cast them for other than her, or her party. It implies too representation for the Tories in Wales & Scottish constituencies, rather than the bizarre non-appearance of Tory m.p.s in those countries when there was clearly still support for the party in the 80s.

Just because you have a preference for the previous outcomes ain't altering English as it is spoken.

So you don't have any preference for the outcomes under other governments? You'd be happy to undo everything Labour has achieved over the last century too?

[Krill]

Molly, just going off dictionary.com:

a command or authorization to act in a particular way on a public issue given by the electorate to its representative: The president had a clear mandate to end the war.

I'd interpret that to mean that the leader of the party that got the most seats in parliament can do whatever was said in the party manifesto they had prior to the election, and to react to unforeseen circumstances how they see fit. I think that minority governments would be best described as having a mandate to do whatever was in their manifesto prior to the the election and supporting parties would have a mandate to support the government when it acts in concordance with their manifesto. I view the problem is the voting method is ****ed up, and it needs changing, but that doesn't mean that government shouldn't govern because it is broken. That's one of the reasons that the UK effectively ceased to function in the 70's.

[Dauphin]

I'm sorry, but what is your meaning of the term ?

The problem lies in our electoral system, not my comprehension of English. Less than half of those who actually cast votes is not a majority or carte blanche for future actions, whichever lookingglass you view it in.

To me, and I would think most, a political mandate is provided when the party enacts policies which it espoused during an election campaign that was won freely and fairly. Any fundamental change (such as a new policy or leader) is not mandated.

What's your definition?

[N35t0r]

Thatcher would have been a one-term wonder if the Argies had set their fuses right at the Falklands landing, it would have been the greatest disaster since Suez

Seriously? The only chance the ****ing military government had of 'winning' the war was for the UK not bothering to show up (that or the US supporting us, like some crazy whackos in the junta believed).