How democratic is America?

[Sava]

States rights is such a stupid concept. State and local governments can be just as or more corrupt as the federal government. There is also much less oversight. Plus, if a person is so afraid of the big bad government, you'd think you would want it in mostly one town, not in your home state.

I don't really care about being more or less democratic than 20 other nations. America isn't perfect. But it's pretty fricken awesome.

[giblets]

I'd expect a tiny island nation to have an easier time maintaining a high level of democracy.

[Hauldren Collider]

Perhaps that says more about the people making the list than the countries on the list.

QFT

[The Mad Monk]

If there's an identifiable issue with their method of calculation, then that's a perfectly reasonable thing to critisize. Just going 'Anyone can make a list' doesn't really act as much of a rebuttal.

Well, let's start with "participation". How is it measured? Does it account for repercussions of not participating, e.g., fines or persecution?

[MikeH]

Yes. I would have a hard time making a case either way for whether legislating that everyone had to vote and therefore having huge turnout was more or less democratic than letting people choose whether to vote or not.

One is clearly more liberal than the other, but is one more democratic? I could make fairly convincing arguments for both sides.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Every since "The war on drugs" started in the Reagan era, the U.S. has been on a continual march to become a Police State. This is in large part due to the federal government exercising more and more control over the daily lives of U.S. citizens. This is one reson that I support State's Rights. I believe that the closer to the people the actual power is, the more democratic and free we are.

Interestingly, people tend to focus on the bad things they see in State's Rights ( Every time I mention it people start shouting "Slavery!" and "Voting Rights!"), which have been present, but the federal government has acted correctly in its constitutional oversight in most of these issues. The problem is that the feds have acted also in many places that they were never intended too. If we see a shift of power back to the States then we will see ourselves move up the democracy rankings. Power to the people!

War on Drugs really effectively started with Nixon. Because, you know, that it was really part of the International Communist Conspiracy^TM to corrupt and weaken our youth.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Indeed.

As an extreme example, one may think it's only logical to rate countries with "People's Republic" in the name much higher in a list, as it's clear the people are paramount from such a mission statement.

And "Democratic People's Republic" most of all.

[Felch]

Democracy is less important to me than limiting the role of government in people's lives.

[Sava]

Democracy is less important to me than limiting the role of government in people's lives.

Yeah. Because accountability and laws are for pussies. Big corporations with private militaries should be running the show.

[Felch]

Unrestrained democracy is for pussies. Pussies who want drunk drivers treated like child molesters, and limits on the size of sodas. Pussies who want to censor movies and TV because they don't like bad words or tits, and pussies who want to ban certain guns because of how they look.

Most people are idiot pieces of shit who can barely manage their own lives. I don't want them making choices about mine.

[Sava]

Unrestrained democracy is for pussies. Pussies who want drunk drivers treated like child molesters, and limits on the size of sodas. Pussies who want to censor movies and TV because they don't like bad words or tits, and pussies who want to ban certain guns because of how they look.

Most people are idiot pieces of shit who can barely manage their own lives. I don't want them making choices about mine.

I agree. Fortunately, in the real world, the choice isn't between these two extremes. Hopefully you will figure this out one day.

[Felch]

If the standard by which you judge countries is how democratic they are, then your goal is an extremely democratic country. Democracy isn't perfect though, and without a significant restriction in its size and scope, it will inevitably run haywire. Democracy is why we have corporate welfare (protects jobs), farm subsidies (protects "farmers"), a war on drugs (look tough on crime), a war on terror (look tough on brown people), and about a zillion little instances of corruption and waste (elections cost money, and money comes from donors). The ideal government is one that is strong enough to protect the people from violence and uphold their rights, but which is smaller than the monstrosity we have. Hopefully you'll pull your head out of your condescending ass and figure this out one day.

[Sava]

If the standard by which you judge countries is how democratic they are, then your goal is an extremely democratic country. Democracy isn't perfect though, and without a significant restriction in its size and scope, it will inevitably run haywire. Democracy is why we have corporate welfare (protects jobs), farm subsidies (protects "farmers"), a war on drugs (look tough on crime), a war on terror (look tough on brown people), and about a zillion little instances of corruption and waste (elections cost money, and money comes from donors). The ideal government is one that is strong enough to protect the people from violence and uphold their rights, but which is smaller than the monstrosity we have. Hopefully you'll pull your head out of your condescending ass and figure this out one day.

I never understood this thought process. Government is so evil. But yet, you want it to kill instead of feed. You are afraid of jack booted thugs stealing your guns, but you want armed guards on every street corner. And who cares if they are convicted felons, child molesters, wife-beaters... just as long as they aren't black.

Also, it's funny to watch you argue against a strawman. Maybe you should read my thoughts on the matter.

trololol

[Kidlicious]

If the standard by which you judge countries is how democratic they are, then your goal is an extremely democratic country. Democracy isn't perfect though, and without a significant restriction in its size and scope, it will inevitably run haywire. Democracy is why we have corporate welfare (protects jobs), farm subsidies (protects "farmers"), a war on drugs (look tough on crime), a war on terror (look tough on brown people), and about a zillion little instances of corruption and waste (elections cost money, and money comes from donors). The ideal government is one that is strong enough to protect the people from violence and uphold their rights, but which is smaller than the monstrosity we have. Hopefully you'll pull your head out of your condescending ass and figure this out one day.

Yeah, cause there's no corporate welfare in North Korea

[MrFun]

Every since "The war on drugs" started in the Reagan era, the U.S. has been on a continual march to become a Police State. This is in large part due to the federal government exercising more and more control over the daily lives of U.S. citizens. This is one reson that I support State's Rights. I believe that the closer to the people the actual power is, the more democratic and free we are.

Interestingly, people tend to focus on the bad things they see in State's Rights ( Every time I mention it people start shouting "Slavery!" and "Voting Rights!"), which have been present, but the federal government has acted correctly in its constitutional oversight in most of these issues. The problem is that the feds have acted also in many places that they were never intended too. If we see a shift of power back to the States then we will see ourselves move up the democracy rankings. Power to the people!

I thought you were one of those who worships the deity, Reagan?