Abortion Thread CCLX

[regexcellent]

Big advantage to the turbine is the ridiculous acceleration and the fact that it's super quiet.

[Tupac Shakur]

Much lower speed however, and the nice thing about a gas turbine is you can run it off jet fuel, so you don't need different supply lines for tanks and helicopters.

You do, of course, need a **** load more fuel overall.

[Hauldren Collider]

That's what we have Canada for

[Tupac Shakur]

Just noticed that the Wikipedia "Death of Osama bin Laden" page shows the OBL was killed in action by putting a little cross after his name. That's just adding insult to injury, isn't it?

[Hauldren Collider]

[MichaeltheGreat]

I read that OBL was still involved in a lot of the operations of Al Qaeda at the time of his death.

He was apparently issuing directives and trying to micromanage to retain relevancy, but due to the security considerations (which we unraveled) with his courier network, his "orders" and missives were too slow to be operationally relevant to imminent threats. Once things got past a "we want to **** with this" stage, his communication process is too slow.

If you actually read the book by "Mark Owen" about the operation you get the sense that there isn't really much lingering rivalry between Delta and DEVGRU and members of each apparently regularly get cross-posted to the other unit when one needs a little more strength temporarily.

There has never been "real" rivalry other than healthy individual egos, however, there are some fundamental doctrinal differences and training differences in the origins of the troops. DEVGRU and SEALS have some issues on the ground side - if anything goes sideways such that they have to engage in sustained combat on the ground, they're pretty much ****ed - the individual training is outstanding, but they have minimal training in small unit tactics such as counterambush and other standard fare for infantry. D boys all come out of various infantry via Ranger and SF groups.

In all seriousness and in spite of what I've posted in this thread, branch rivalry is pretty dumb. It's my opinion that the branches should be unified and redundant non-combat arms MOSes combined as "purple trades" a la the Canadian Forces.

If people take branch rivalry too seriously, it's dumb, except with the air farce and blue water navy types, who have a pretty limited contribution to real warfighting. Otherwise, it's healthy competition away from a combat situation. In combat, we're all brothers - we just give each other **** when it's the appropriate time. Combined branches don't work - they do different things doctrinally and have different functions.

e: I wonder what MOS delta operators hold? Is it 19 series or 11 series? Is it just former rangers are 11A/Bs and former SF guys are 19-whatevers? The world may never know.

19s are armor pukes. SFs are 18s. D boys are rank heavy. E6 is the practical minimum due to service time and specialty school requirements, with officers being CWO2 or higher and O3 or higher. MOS for officers are limited to 11A, 18A, Enlisted MOS are 11B, 11Z, 18B, 18D, 18E and 18Z. All must be Airborne, MFP and Air Assault qualified, must qualify expert on at least primary and secondary weapons (18D only on primary weapon), and must be graduates of either Ranger school and airborne* or ranger battalion service, or SF schools with service in an SF group. The post school unit service requirement is to prevent ticket puncher officers and Ranger school graduate enlisted who go back to leg units.

edit: *Ranger school grads without service in one of the Ranger battalions who meet all other qualifications are eligible, but not likely for selection due to the different mission focus and training intensity. Most d boys have surplus specialty schools and unit experience over the minimums.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Big advantage to the turbine is the ridiculous acceleration and the fact that it's super quiet.

Bigger advantage is you can turn the ****ing thing off to lower your IR signature from ground or air. Engine start to full load movement time is much less.

[regexcellent]

Brain fart. I meant 18 series, not 19. I'm not surprised about the rank heaviness because SF is all e5/o3 and up and ranger batt officers are all o2 and up iirc. Airborne/air assault/MFP/Ranger/Q-course is a pretty long list of schools but I guess that wouldn't be uncommon for someone coming from an SF group. Pretty much all active duty 11As do airborne and ranger these days.

The thing about branch rivalry isn't a battlefield problem but a problem in the pentagon with jockeying for funding and everyone having their own acquisitions and ideas of whose turf is whose and who gets what missions.

MtG, did you work with D-boys at all when you were in the 75th?

[MrFun]

I think this is a clever maneuver by the State.

So what you're saying is that you're a communist that wants to squelch businesses.

[MrFun]

The problem is that you conflate human rights with citizenship. Human rights exist for all humans (which is a biological distinction, not a legal status like that moron MtG said). Human rights are universal and egalitarian. Citizenship is a legal status within a specific government. You can be human and not be a citizen of the United States.

So then let's deny babies who are born in United States citizenship if it's not a right.

[giblets]

So then let's deny babies who are born in United States citizenship if it's not a right.

Okay we'll just have to amend the Constitution.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Pretty much all active duty 11As do airborne and ranger these days.

The thing about branch rivalry isn't a battlefield problem but a problem in the pentagon with jockeying for funding and everyone having their own acquisitions and ideas of whose turf is whose and who gets what missions.

MtG, did you work with D-boys at all when you were in the 75th?

Which is a ticket-punching waste of those schools.

Regardless of how you structure the services or consolidate them you'll have turf and procurement issues. The more time officers spend around the Pentagon and the further up the chain they go, the bigger the ego. Second aspect is that getting turf and missions in the first place is the ticket up the career ladder. Defense contractors also have a pretty insidious role - look at the utter waste of the F35 program - but LM is fat and happy and a lot of former officers will find their post-service careers there. At the same time, any O5 candidate or higher who expresses impure thoughts about budget priorities, doctrine, etc., will find it real hard to get congressional approval for promotion.

All aspects of d boy operations are classified. After my time in 2 Ranger Bn, I went to Pathfinder school, then elsewhere.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

So then let's deny babies who are born in United States citizenship if it's not a right.

Military jerkoff threadjack >>>>>>>> original post

[Tupac Shakur]

Military jerkoff threadjack >>>>>>>> original post

You're welcome.

[Felch]

So then let's deny babies who are born in United States citizenship if it's not a right.

As Gribbler pointed out, that's a Constitutional matter. There are plenty of jus sanguinis countries that have a different standard for citizenship, and their system doesn't violate anybody's human rights.