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Columbia astronauts weren't told of malfunction

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  • #76
    I was contrasting that with the sort of spiteful, wilful malevolence that would be needed to single out in any way Col. Ramon.
    When all else fails, blame brown people. | Hire a teen, while they still know it all. | Trump-Palin 2016. "You're fired." "I quit."

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    • #77
      Col. Ramon was a brave person, doing his job. No different than the rest of the crew. I would hope Al is capable of seeing that fact; but I don't waste TOO much hope.
      Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
      "Hating America is something best left to Mobius. He is an expert Yank hater.
      He also hates Texans and Australians, he does diversify." ~ Braindead

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      • #78
        Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat View Post
        Cost plus
        Oh God, where's my wooden stake?

        We've never had to use an LES.
        That's a pretty way to put it. If you designed the spaceship to have an LES, neither Challenger nor Columbia would have happened.
        I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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        • #79
          Wooden stake.
          Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
          "Hating America is something best left to Mobius. He is an expert Yank hater.
          He also hates Texans and Australians, he does diversify." ~ Braindead

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          • #80
            Originally posted by DanS View Post
            Oh God, where's my wooden stake?
            Is it in your CASDI filings? If it is, we'll give the cost to manufacture one and a 10% award fee with this change order.


            Originally posted by DanS View Post
            That's a pretty way to put it. If you designed the spaceship to have an LES, neither Challenger nor Columbia would have happened.
            Not correct. No LES ever designed or proposed would have saved Challenger - in fact, all existing LES designs would have been jettisoned well before Challenger got to that altitude, since the LES would prevent the execution of the turn and roll manuever to start the positioning for orbital insertion. The extent of damage to Columbia was not known in time. Foam strikes happened on virtually every mission, so you wouldn't abort over it. This was the one case where the foam strike hit the RCC leading edge, not TTS tiles.

            LES would not have saved either crew. Those losses were preventable, but by other means.
            Last edited by MichaeltheGreat; February 2, 2013, 16:34.
            When all else fails, blame brown people. | Hire a teen, while they still know it all. | Trump-Palin 2016. "You're fired." "I quit."

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            • #81
              Originally posted by SlowwHand View Post
              Col. Ramon was a brave person, doing his job. No different than the rest of the crew. I would hope Al is capable of seeing that fact; but I don't waste TOO much hope.
              IMO, the biggest set of astronaut balls ever, outside first three Mercury missions, were on Laurel Clark. diving medical officer, submarine medical officer, radiation health officer, flight surgeon, then astronaut. She was one kick-ass human being.
              When all else fails, blame brown people. | Hire a teen, while they still know it all. | Trump-Palin 2016. "You're fired." "I quit."

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              • #82
                More stupid hiding the ball. A proper LES would have moved the Shuttle from side-mount design. Thus, no Columbia. Challenger exploded at 48,000 feet, well before Saturn V's LES was jettisoned. Shuttle's positioning for orbital insertion was specific to Shuttle. With a proper LES, no Challenger.
                I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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                • #83
                  Who's hiding the ball now? You're using an ancillary component like LES as the reason to redesign the entire system from scratch, which is your previously stated point of view. Tails wagging the dog is cute with puppies, but it's not the way you engineer and build stuff.

                  And yes, if you don't build the shuttle, nothing will happen with the shuttle.
                  When all else fails, blame brown people. | Hire a teen, while they still know it all. | Trump-Palin 2016. "You're fired." "I quit."

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                  • #84
                    If you can't build a spaceship without a proper LES, then it has no business launching in the first place. Full stop. To launch is to kill your crew about 1-in-50 launches.
                    I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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                    • #85
                      Only if you also have a schedule first, safety second arrogant culture. Both STS losses were 100% preventable with the existing design, especially Challenger, which was deliberately launched outside the launch window set by Morton Thiokol and other primes and agreed by NASA. Challenger was avoidable as well, with the existing design. Take the policy and management flaws out, and you have a loss rate of 0 based on the actual experience with the fleet.
                      When all else fails, blame brown people. | Hire a teen, while they still know it all. | Trump-Palin 2016. "You're fired." "I quit."

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                      • #86
                        I'm pretty sure all of the astronauts knew there was a chance the mission might not be a success and that they already said their good byes to family and friends before they got on board. I'm not sure it would have helped to tell them about one of what was no doubt dozens of technical issues prior to launch. They needed their head in the game so they could do their jobs and that meant not distracting them with other stuff which was the technical teams job to solve.
                        Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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                        • #87
                          Originally posted by DanS View Post
                          More stupid hiding the ball. A proper LES would have moved the Shuttle from side-mount design. Thus, no Columbia. Challenger exploded at 48,000 feet, well before Saturn V's LES was jettisoned. Shuttle's positioning for orbital insertion was specific to Shuttle. With a proper LES, no Challenger.
                          But then my middle school would have had a different name. :sadyes:
                          Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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