What's the difference between Israel and North Korea/Syria?

[Al B. Sure!]

What's going to be interesting, Dr. Strangelove, considering the populations you mentioned intensified by the high Arab birthrate is what will happen when democratic Israel, especially a single state that controls the West Bank, is majority Muslim Arab?

[Hauldren Collider]

Palestinian is a made-up ethnicity. Prior to the PLO and Arafat, they were just Jordanians.

[Al B. Sure!]

Palestinian is a made-up ethnicity. Prior to the PLO and Arafat, they were just Jordanians.

I wonder why then did Herodotus refer to Palestinians; as did the ancient Egyptians who called them Peleset?

[Al B. Sure!]

Hilarious that I'm the Nazi but you're the one denying cultural history and heritage. Even if Palestinian only emerged in the 20th century, what of it? Latino wasn't a thing until the 20th century either.

Hell, all the different post-colonial nationalities don't matter, I guess. Pakistani? Made up!


What were Bosniaks before the 20th century? Made up!

[Al B. Sure!]

Bosniak is a made-up ethnicity. Prior to the Yugoslav breakup, they were just Turks.

Sounds about right.

[Hauldren Collider]

You're such a ****ing idiot, Al. Until about 60 or 70 years ago, they didn't identify as Palestinian. No one ever called them Palestinians. It's also a moot point, since people do now call them that. But in the interest of historical accuracy, yes they are in fact a made-up ethnicity created to generate support for the PLO.

[Hauldren Collider]

Just to remind everyone what Al thinks of large groups of people suffering:

I don't know about you but I still get a little hard when I think about Sherman's March

Thought it would be useful background information, while we're discussing the various ways in which Alby is very sick in the head. Remember, this is also a guy who likes to collect his urine in his hands and thinks that the way to get women is to steal them from other men, like some sort of 50s-movie art caper.

[Al B. Sure!]

Just to remind everyone what Al thinks of large groups of people suffering:

Thought it would be useful background information, while we're discussing the various ways in which Alby is very sick in the head. Remember, this is also a guy who likes to collect his urine in his hands and thinks that the way to get women is to steal them from other men, like some sort of 50s-movie art caper.

Oh dear, what is this:

Oh that's a great idea. Let's move 6 million people to America so those goat-****ing Palestinians don't have to share their land with some Jews. That doesn't sound ****ed up at all. Thank you for your suggestion.

http://apolyton.net/showthread.php/194105-What-is-it-about-arsonists?p=5899433&viewfull=1#post5899433

[Al B. Sure!]

And while we're on the topic of racism. Found this gem by Oerdin, offending two completely different groups of people:

In the 1970's the previous king of Jordan called Palestinians rats which should be exterminated when they attempted a coupe against his government. Face it, not even your fellow Arabs want anything to do with your violent and criminal people. They won't touch that tar baby with a ten foot pole. Laugh it up but it is completely true. None of them want you, Albert Speer.

http://apolyton.net/showthread.php/197786-Another-violent-Islamic-reaction?p=6046675&viewfull=1#post6046675

[Hauldren Collider]

Oh dear, what is this:



http://apolyton.net/showthread.php/1...=1#post5899433

Except for the goat-****ing thing, everything there is totally reasonable and I stand by it. Let's read it again without the slur:

Oh that's a great idea. Let's move 6 million people to America so Palestinians don't have to share their land with some Jews. That doesn't sound ****ed up at all. Thank you for your suggestion.

Now explain to me how you can seriously disagree with it.

Word to the wise: You're gonna have to work really hard to beat me at this game of how-poster-x-is-****ed-up. I'm not in the closet about anything, be it homosexuality or anti-semitism. That means I'm up two on you.

[MichaeltheGreat]

My folks were apparently exiled to Barbados in the 17th century for reasons unknown, then entered the US as Quaker missionaries. The later part about our "right of return" was sheer rhetoric.

Mine left directly for Virginia in 1618 and 1635 on my dad's side, My mom's side was later, but still late colonial/early US.

Nevertheless it's apparent that before the diaspora there were 4 to 5 times more Jews voluntarily living outside of Judea,

How so? Population studies that far back are highly imprecise, and knowledge of the lives of common people is extremely sparse. A lot of "voluntary" behavior wasn't necessarily "voluntary." It's not like commoners of any ethnicity had much in the line of due process rights.

Ummm, that is the current situation, the fate of the Palestinians Arabs IS in the hands of the Israelis Jews and the situation of the Palestinians is becoming more dire by the day. From owning 90% of the land in 1947, to being allowed only 45% by the UN in 1948, to being crammed into 23% after the first war, and now it's down to 13% and declining every few months.

I was being rhetorical about the reversal, but the Palestinians are not in a good situation, nor an acceptable one. Their leaders, their supporters such as Hamas, and other arab regimes have not helped. Israel isn't blameless by any stretch - nobody is, but as usual in the world, the common people bear the brunt.

The Zionist Organisation in 1919 presented to the Pais peace conference a map of their proposed homeland. It's pretty much the same as the current map of Israel except it also included the area of southern Lebanon previously occupied by Israel.If you take a look at the distribution of seats in the Israeli Parliament over 1/3 belong to parties that pledge themselves to the vision of a Greater Israel, meaning no Palestine, ever.

Which is franly unreasonable, and I have no support whatsoever for the parties to the right of Likud. The types who make Bibi look like an arab-loving liberal are complete nutcases and ought to be locked in a room with the leaders of Hamas and Hizbullah.

The ruling coalition is dependent on an alliance with them.

Which is truly unfortunate and a big impediment to real progress.

[q]Also, just because we can't "unring the bell can't we at least give back to the Palestinians at least what they were promised in 1948? Remember, in 1948 though Jews amounted to only 1/4 the population the UN apportioned 55% of Palestine to them because there were millions of refugees waiting to immigrate. Today there are 5.5 million Israeli Jews and 4.5 million Palestinians in Israel, not counting Israeli Arabs. There are another 5 to 9 million Palestinians living in exile. Using the same logic that the UN used in 1947 giving the Palestinians the land promised to them would be unfair..... to the Paletinians. They should get an extra slice equal to the extra slice taken by Israel in 1948.[/QUOTE]

The population and land area situation is complicated by the tactical value of the ground and the security situation. It has to be resolved, but not in a way that increase's Israel's vulnerability to active external threats. Ballistic missile defense is a major issue given Iranian interest in long range ballistic missles, nukes, and their stated hostility to Israel.

[molly bloom]

My folks were apparently exiled to Barbados in the 17th century for reasons unknown,

Probably political/religious dissidence. In about the same period Bunyan wrote 'Pilgrim's Progress' in jail, Roman Catholic Irish were also shipped out to Barbados and Montserrat- so despite the (relatively) tolerant regimes of the Interregnum, you could still see yourself transported on the grounds of having the wrong faith.

Intriguingly enough, Oliver Cromwell early on saw the potential of having a strong English commercial/military presence in the Caribbean through his involvement with the Providence Island colony which influenced his enthusiasm for the Western Design.

http://www.british-civil-wars.co.uk/military/anglo-spanish-war-western-design.htm

[molly bloom]

Hilarious that I'm the Nazi

Your fondness for the Aryan myth and 1930s' race 'science' do go some way to strengthening that notion in people's minds. That and printing unattributed information from a 'German' encyclopaedia to support your ideas about membership of the 'white' race.

[Dauphin]

They haven't been mocked Gungnam Style yet.

Alas, no...

[molly bloom]

You're such a ****ing idiot, Al. Until about 60 or 70 years ago, they didn't identify as Palestinian. No one ever called them Palestinians.

The rise of the Young Turks in the Ottoman Empire was reflected in the birth of a Palestinian nationalist movement in Palestine. Officially, the Ottomans had always referred in government papers to 'Arz-i-Filistin' (see Neville J. Mandel's 'The Arabs And Zionism Before WWI'- sorry don't know if he's a self-hating Jew or not).

1908 saw a Palestinian newspaper called appropriately enough, 'Filastin'. 1911 saw 'al-Karmil' . That well-known friend of Arab nationalism, Vladimir Jabotinsky, had this to say on the subject:

(The Palestinians) ...look at Palestine with the same instinctive love and true fervour that any Aztec looked upon Mexico or any Sioux looked upon his prairie. Palestine will remain for the Palestinians not a borderland, but their birthplace, the centre and basis of their own national existence.

Jabotinsky, 'The Iron Wall/We And The Arabs'