What's the difference between Israel and North Korea/Syria?

[Hauldren Collider]

Except that people are allowed to go in and out of the gates...loads of West Bank residents work in Israel proper. It's where the PA gets most of its foreign currency.

....I think he was kidding, reg

[Alexander's Horse]

yes there are many differences, but the wall looks bad

[MichaeltheGreat]

If you're having to rely on MOBIUS to support your world view, Herr Reichsminister, you are in sad shape indeed.

[MichaeltheGreat]

I'm sorry but the similarities between the walls around Jerusalem and the Warsaw ghetto are all too obvious.

I'm sure Herr Speer thinks so. He's probably waiting for the likes of Dirlewanger and von dem Bach-Zelewski to show up around Jerusalem so he'd have something to jerk off to.

[Dr Strangelove]

It's more than that. Israel has long ago written off the UN as anything but a platform for its enemies. Just go back to the major wars, and nothing much from the UN but a little foot dragging and pro forma hand-wringing when Arab armies were advancing, but once Israel turned the tables, all of a sudden the UN is jumping up and down about the urgent need for an immediate cease fire.

I would imagine from the Israeli perspective, any UN organization has less credibility than the Arab League, because at least the Arab League is transparent about its motives and bias.

Somewhat ironic when you consider that the UN gave Israel life and has turned a blind eye to every Israeli land grab. Only in the past few decades has there begun to be any resistance in the UN to Israel's continual territorial aggression.

[MichaeltheGreat]

They gave back the Sinai. Given the strategic and tactical value of the West Bank and Golan Heights, plus the whole "Zionist Entity" nonsense in the arab world in general with denial of the right of Israel to exist, plus things like the attempted screwing around by old man Assad with Lake Kinneret, if I was the Israeil government, I wouldn't give it back either. All of the "land grabs" were a result of arab invasions and subsequently getting their asses handed to them.

I think ultimately, if there's a comprehensive agreement where Israel's arab neighbors recognize Israel's right to exist, I think Israel should give back the West Bank and Golan, with the proviso that those lands shall forever be a (offensive) demilitarized zone (and that includes *******s with Katyushas), with both parties having the right to install purely defensive installations (air defense radar and missile defense batteries), plus reasonable physical security for those installations. As things stand now, there is simply too much value in those positions for ballistic missile early warning to simply cede them back to their prior arab state owners.

[DinoDoc]

yes there are many differences, but the wall looks bad

Would a nice mural help?

[Dr Strangelove]

They gave back the Sinai. Given the strategic and tactical value of the West Bank and Golan Heights, plus the whole "Zionist Entity" nonsense in the arab world in general with denial of the right of Israel to exist, plus things like the attempted screwing around by old man Assad with Lake Kinneret, if I was the Israeil government, I wouldn't give it back either. All of the "land grabs" were a result of arab invasions and subsequently getting their asses handed to them.

I think ultimately, if there's a comprehensive agreement where Israel's arab neighbors recognize Israel's right to exist, I think Israel should give back the West Bank and Golan, with the proviso that those lands shall forever be a (offensive) demilitarized zone (and that includes *******s with Katyushas), with both parties having the right to install purely defensive installations (air defense radar and missile defense batteries), plus reasonable physical security for those installations. As things stand now, there is simply too much value in those positions for ballistic missile early warning to simply cede them back to their prior arab state owners.

If the Palestinians must disarm then the israelis ought to also. Who invaded whom first?

[Hauldren Collider]

[DinoDoc]

If the Palestinians must disarm then the israelis ought to also. Who invaded whom first?

The 1st and 2nd time? That was the Arabs. The 3rd time? That was the Israelis simply because they didn't care to be invaded again as would have happened if they'd have held back.

[Kidlicious]

Yeah, pretty much.

[molly bloom]

You find a self-hating Jew

Interestingly, before WWII it was actually fine for Jews (secular or religious) to criticize the attempt to create a state of Israel or the Zionist movement without incurring the epithet 'Self-Hating Jew!' .


As anyone who has read about the history of Zionist movements would know...

Now of course once the magic definition 'Self-Hating Jew' is in play, anything that particular Jewish person has to say about anything relating to Israel, Middle East politics, the American Zionist lobby (both Jewish and right wing Protestant) and its effect on American foreign policy is deemed inadmissible.

[Dinner]

If the Palestinians must disarm then the israelis ought to also. Who invaded whom first?

If they were kids on a play ground then I'd agree but since we're talking about countries here I'll have to say no. Israel remains surrounded by hostile regimes (including countries it is supposedly at peace with but which remain hostile at heart such as the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt) and Israel does have the upper hand right now so it is in a position to impose terms.

[PLATO]

1st time was the prolonged invasion of illegal Jewish immigrants and terrorism pre 1948

I'm sure you meant "guest workers" and "righteous fight for equal protection". That is the "politically correct" vanacular these days isn't it?

[MichaeltheGreat]

If the Palestinians must disarm then the israelis ought to also. Who invaded whom first?

How far back do you want to go and how many invasions? Let the Palestinians be armed. Let the Golan and West Bank be DMZs (for all parties) except for the aforementioned air defense/observation installations.