Who are American politicians beholden to? The People? The Constitution?

[Jon Miller]

I Think so.

JM

[Jon Miller]

The relative economic importance of europe and the US are obviously going to go down.

The only way to keep them from going down would be to bomb the **** out of asia/africa/south america continually.

Thankfully we are stopping that...

JM

[DinoDoc]

@Plato, you Americans talk endlessly about the 'inevitable' end result of socialist, yet the European countries have done this for decades without any disaster scenarios.

Greece? Which is itself the starkest example of the European sovereign debt crisis.

[Straybow]

How 'bout Ireland, where the Government seized $4B in private retirement accounts to cover their own mismanagement? Spain and Portugal are in some ways worse, but they just haven't seized private retirements. France has perpetual 10%+ unemployment and even Germany isn't far behind.

[Jon Miller]

Greece's problems have nothing do with socialism. They have to do with a country which liked to borrow, but not tax.

Which reminds me a bit of the US?

JM

[Jon Miller]

Ireland's problems are mostly caused by their private sector.

Same with Spain.

About the only one where your complaint has some traction, maybe, is France.

Which has a medical system which is closer to the US than most countries.

JM

[DinoDoc]

Jon: No true Scotsman

[Krill]

Uh, isn't a counter example China?

[Straybow]

If you think Greece isn't socialist, I've got a bridge to sell ya...

[Dauphin]

Greece's problem is that it was (is) a third world country that got first world credit. Or a teenage girl that got given dad's credit cards and told to knock herself out.

[Dauphin]

Greece's problems have nothing do with socialism. They have to do with a country which liked to borrow, but not tax.

Which reminds me a bit of the US?

JM

I trust you have seen the types of "benefits" that were to be cut from the budget to balance the books, and despite being ridiculous by most objective standards caused a massive ruckus in Greece?

(this is not to say that other cuts are not hard hitting on those who do need them, like the old and infirm's health care and pensions)

[Dauphin]

Also, I'm surprised nobody has picked up on this story:

http://www.lesechos.fr/economie-politique/france/document/0202577006715-goodyear-la-lettre-de-titan-a-montebourg-540115.php

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/9885369/French-minister-hits-back-at-three-hour-day-attack.html

Arnaud Montebourg, minister for industrial renewal in France, was subject to a written barrage of abuse from Maurice Taylor, chief executive of US tyremaker Titan, after the French politician appealed for financial support for an ailing Goodyear factory.

Mr Taylor berated French workers for putting in just "three hours" a day, and said his company would be "stupid" to invest in the loss-making tyre plant in Amiens, northern France.

"The French workforce gets paid high wages but only work for three hours. They get one hour for breaks and lunch, talk for three and work for three. I told this to the French union workers to their faces. They told me that's the French way!" Mr Taylor wrote.

Mr Montebourg, who declined to comment on Wednesday, added his voice to a rising tide of outrage in the Gallic nation in a written response telling the Titan boss "your words, as extremist as they are insulting, show a perfect ignorance of our country."

He went on to point out that since Titan is "20 times smaller" than "French technology leader" Michelin, which is "35 times more profitable", Mr Taylor "could have learnt and gained enormously from a French base."

CLICK LINK FOR MORE

[OneFootInTheGrave]

so basically a French worker does as much in 3 hours as an American does in 10?

Interesting.

[kentonio]

Greece? Which is itself the starkest example of the European sovereign debt crisis.

I love when you guys mention Greece to push your idiotic talking points about how terrible Europe is. It's kind of like using Mississippi as an example of how utterly backwards America must be.

If you think Greece isn't socialist, I've got a bridge to sell ya...

Given your past utter inability to even know what socialism is, I'll take one of those bridges please. I hear Alaska might be looking for one.

Jon: No true Scotsman

Let's be vaguely honest here, when we discuss Europe in these terms we're talking about the western European nations (UK/France/Germany/Belgium/Holland etc) and Scandinavia. Southern Europe has been behind the curve for a very long time (Spain was a fascist nation until 1975 for goodness sake), Eastern Europe & Baltics was under Soviet control for decades and the Balkans have always been a huge turbulent mess. The amazing success of the EU experiment has not only been that very few Euro nations have felt the urge to blow the **** out of their neighbours, but that a general lifting of living standards and progressive thinking has swept across the continent.

When you Americans talk about the evils of socialism, you just sound incredibly naive to people who actually lived through repressive regimes, domestic war and constant turmoil. Basic socialism to us IS freedom. The freedom to live, work and raise families without an oppressive level of control imposed by government or corporations. How are you free if you are at the utter mercy of an employer who can fire you at will, pay you anything they like and leave you destitute and without access to medical care if anything goes wrong in your life? A basic level of socialism should be the ultimate American dream, all men created equal and with the same opportunities. Unfettered capitalism is the ultimate pyramid scheme.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Given your past utter inability to even know what socialism is, I'll take one of those bridges please. I hear Alaska might be looking for one.