DC Braces for megastorm

[Imran Siddiqui]

By the way, virtue manifesting itself in Old Testament Israel meant executing homosexuals and putting women to death for being raped in a town. I for one am glad I don't live under such barbaric circumstances.

Societal virtue also involved caring for the poor (such as preventing picking all of the crop) and welcoming in aliens (as Israel were aliens in the land of Egypt). Not that Israel was always virtuous, but neither are we (as we are all fallen).

[Felch]

I believe we instinctively recoil at the taking advantage of a disaster situation aspect for a reason. Our inner natures believe this is unfair because people are using the disaster to make additional profits. In addition, the poor ("the least of these") are, of course, unable to afford items when the prices get jacked up many times above their normal price. The rich, are the ones who can afford the triple price much much easier.

The rich ought to buy what they can afford and share with the poor. That is Christianity. Christianity isn't about the government fixing prices, it's about individuals showing their love for God through their good works for their neighbors. My problem with your attitude is that it takes a coercive approach to what should be a free and voluntary action. If people are forced to do good, then they're not acting in a Christ like fashion. It's only virtue if you have a choice in the matter.

[Hauldren Collider]

Oh ffs, Imran. Let's please leave your metaphysical horse**** out of our economic policy. Unlike you, I don't take important decisions as an article of faith.

[MrFun]

... free transactions ...

You had freedom to choose between two choices. You could give away your money to the person holding the gun to your head, or you could choose not to. Of course, there would be an irreversible consequence if you refused to give your money, but you still had a choice.

[giblets]

I believe we instinctively recoil at the taking advantage of a disaster situation aspect for a reason. Our inner natures believe this is unfair because people are using the disaster to make additional profits. In addition, the poor ("the least of these") are, of course, unable to afford items when the prices get jacked up many times above their normal price. The rich, are the ones who can afford the triple price much much easier.

Our instinct is to help people in a disaster, so charging a higher price for something they need is counterintuitive and our instinct tells us we should keep the price down. But laws shouldn't be based on instincts and knee-jerk reactions. If you're going to arrest someone for doing something, you ought to make sure that what they are doing is actually harmful. Criminalizing a lack of charity toward the poor is over the line.

[Hauldren Collider]

You had freedom to choose between two choices. You could give away your money to the person holding the gun to your head, or you could choose not to. Of course, there would be an irreversible consequence if you refused to give your money, but you still had a choice.

I'm sorry, but there is no meaningful freedom in that decision. Clearly one person is being coerced. This isn't something you can quibble on. This is an EXTREMELY well-understood micro concept. In a proper transaction, people only make choices when they believe they benefit from them. Both people have to believe that they will benefit for a transaction to occur. In this manner, economics is not zero sum.

The government exists not to keep us safe from ourselves but safe from others. It (generally) does not exist to try to dictate to us which decisions are good decisions.

[MrFun]

I'm sorry, but there is no meaningful freedom in that decision. Clearly one person is being coerced.

Nah, no coercion - not if you and others are arguing that price gouging still allows consumers their freedom of meaningful choices in survival/disaster situations.

[Hauldren Collider]

Nah, no coercion - not if you and others are arguing that price gouging still allows consumers their freedom of meaningful choices in survival/disaster situations.

How is that different from everyday life, dufus? I have to buy food or I'll starve. Help, I'm being coerced, I should just get it for free!

It's always nice to see people espouse the economics of the French Revolution. You can apparently have a Master's in HISTORY and STILL not be aware of these very obvious facts.

[Felch]

Nah, no coercion - not if you and others are arguing that price gouging still allows consumers their freedom of meaningful choices in survival/disaster situations.

Watch out, Imran wants to stone you to death for your sexual depravity.

[Imran Siddiqui]

The rich ought to buy what they can afford and share with the poor. That is Christianity. Christianity isn't about the government fixing prices, it's about individuals showing their love for God through their good works for their neighbors. My problem with your attitude is that it takes a coercive approach to what should be a free and voluntary action. If people are forced to do good, then they're not acting in a Christ like fashion. It's only virtue if you have a choice in the matter.

God can see the heart. If they are forced to do good, God can see for what reason. But God also mandates that we care for the poor & as stated ancient Israel made it part of their society. Using the resources of the state, which have a greater efficiency of scale, would be more effective than leaving it to private charity. Social welfare began because private charity was not doing nearly enough to alleviate the suffering of the poor - spearheaded by Christians, IIRC.

[MrFun]

Not arguing for survivalists/disaster victims to get stuff for free - although there are charities that do - but that there should not be any price gouging.

And there's a difference between needing to buy food at normal prices during ordinary times, when there is no disaster, and needing to buy food during a disaster, but is only available at gouged prices.


EDIT: x-post, in reply to HC

[Hauldren Collider]

And Imran claims that the GOP wants to instill a theocracy...

[giblets]

Nah, no coercion - not if you and others are arguing that price gouging still allows consumers their freedom of meaningful choices in survival/disaster situations.

Do people die without gasoline? Clearly the government should be making sure hospitals can keep their generators running.

[Imran Siddiqui]

And Imran claims that the GOP wants to instill a theocracy...

Since when?

Have you already forgotten I was defending Mourdock's comments last week?

[Hauldren Collider]

Not arguing for survivalists/disaster victims to get stuff for free - although there are charities that do - but that there should not be any price gouging.

And there's a difference between needing to buy food at normal prices during ordinary times, when there is no disaster, and needing to buy food during a disaster, but is only available at gouged prices.

Well then what prices are correct? When does it go over the line from "reasonable increase" to "gouging (oh teh noes)"? Let's say there is a drought and the price of corn goes up 500%. I know! Let's mandate that prices stay down because otherwise it's gouging.

Or wait, actually I've got a better idea! Let's use a MARKET to decide the optimal price, just like we've always done and has always worked. But no, say people like MrFun, who despite their obvious lack of intelligence believe that they somehow can divine the optimal distribution of goods and mandate it by government fiat.