Stupid is as stupid does and stupidity votes Obama

[Imran Siddiqui]

I wonder how your brain explains the 1980s to itself.

I think he (and HC) were referring to currently. In 1980, I doubt anyone would call the Dems 'reactionary' for one.

[Asher]

I wonder how your brain explains the 1980s to itself.

Nothing can explain the 1980s.

[Lorizael]

I'm a little late to the party, it seems, but I'd like to mention that I never suggested there was some system for grade-buying at the university level. In fact, I claimed the exact opposite in my first non-lol post about the matter.

We generally don't have flagrant and transparent corruption in the US university system, yes. You can't just walk in to the Dean's office and hand over a duffle of cash in exchange for a degree. (You can with online places, but they're not as well regarded). Instead, extremely rich parents can buy their children admission into a university (often in the form of donations), and unless the child ****s it up royally, the child will get a degree.

Anyone claiming that I believe there is some conspiracy among college professors to give good grades to rich students didn't read my posts. I posted evidence of admissions-buying to support my original claim, and snoopy suggested a reasonable mechanism (for which I have no supporting evidence) by which rich parents could influence the grades their children get.

My contention is that buying admission to a school often effectively buys grades/degrees, because getting into a school can sometimes be harder than getting a degree from a school. Whether or not students who didn't earn admission can still be said to earn their degrees if they manage to get good grades is an interesting question, but I think it's fair to say that there's a degree of prestige inherent in getting into an elite school distinct from doing well at that school.

[Jaguar]

All of that is reasonable. Class dismissed.

[Asher]

So now you're okay with reason and not demanding proof?

[Jaguar]

"Development cases" are a well-known phenomenon that are supported in real-life evidence. Buying grades is not.

[Lorizael]

All of that is reasonable. Class dismissed.

I know it's reasonable. Unless I'm posting about my insane personal philosophy, my posts are always reasonable.

[Asher]

"Development cases" are a well-known phenomenon that are supported in real-life evidence. Buying grades is not.

Well, let's backtrack a bit. I clarified long ago, and explicitly, that the phrase I used was a term to refer to people using wealth and influence to obtain degrees not academically warranted. You just agreed that sounds reasonable, while before you demanded "evidence" like a complete tool.

Through either mental retardation or a cognitive bias, you and others have invented the strawman that there is some kind of "system" to systematically "buy grades". Which is never what I said, and I have actually explicitly mentioned this before.

[Jaguar]

Let's backtrack, with actual quotes. You implied that teachers are compelled to ensure that politically or financially-connected students get minimum grades:

You're so naiive...

It's not the public Canadian universities that are known for political/financial manipulation of academics, it's typically the private big-name American ones.

Hell, this happens all the time with many of the football players on a lesser level. They must maintain minimum grades, sure -- but many of the teachers are compelled to ensure they do meet those minimum grades.

You continued to clarify that there was some sort of system by which well-connected students can buy good grades:

You're saying if daddy gives a huge donation to Yale, Yale doesn't ensure he gets a pass?

You're right. That never happens. I'm sure of it. I know because I know a guy who went to Yale. He told me so. He would know, right?

You have been unable to substantiate it for hundreds of posts now.

[Asher]

Let's backtrack, with actual quotes. You implied that teachers are compelled to ensure that politically or financially-connected students get minimum grades:

You continued to clarify that there was some sort of system by which well-connected students can buy good grades:

You have been unable to substantiate it for hundreds of posts now.

None of those quotes imply a system.

You're an idiot.

[Asher]

Stop moving the damn goalposts. I never said there was a system or anything of the sort.

"Buying a degree" is a term used to describe obtaining a degree that was not warranted academically. It can be implemented any number of ways, and it doesn't ****ing matter what way it is. It happens, and intelligent people know it happens.

Here's an actual quote from wayyy earlier on in the thread. You tools kept talking about the "system" I supposedly talked about existing, when I have explicitly stated there is no "system". It's humanity.

[Jaguar]

I just want to know the mechanism by which professors are compelled, and any supporting evidence that it actually happens.

[Jaguar]

The difference between Lori and you is that Lori posted a precise sequence of events that he believes happens. Something like this:

- The true signaling value of an elite university degree is actually largely from the admissions letter, not the diploma - it's much harder to get into the school than to pass.
- People are admitted for fundraising reasons.
- They can pass the courses, even though they would not have otherwise been admitted
- Therefore people overestimate the value of their degree.

In contrast, you believe there are people who get their grades increased, via nebulous mechanisms that you won't tell me about, despite a lack of evidence for said mechanisms existing.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Wait... we've already dealt with this crap! We've moved on!!

[Jaguar]