Originally posted by kentonio
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I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
- Justice Brett Kavanaugh
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Originally posted by kentonio View PostWhy would this be a bad thing? Isn't Gnostic mostly just the christians who got left out when the church picked which bits it wanted to use in the final draft of the bible anyway?
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Originally posted by kentonio View PostSo the gospels that were set aside when the bible was decided, were those not generally described as gnostic?
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Originally posted by kentonio View PostSo the gospels that were set aside when the bible was decided, were those not generally described as gnostic?
Gnosticism was popular during that time period.
Note that the early Christian leaders, those from ~100 AD and so on, who we have quotes from/writings from/etc, quoted the canonical gospels and not the gnostic gospels.
Note also that most of the gnostic gospels are first seen much later than the canonical gospels.
Additionally, since gnosticism predated/etc Christianity, the gnostic gospels are not the original ideas. If you don't believe in Christianity you could argue that the original ideas started with Paul and not with Jesus Christ (I would disagree with that, but would not argue that with you... I could with other more scholarly people), but you can't really argue that the first Christians were gnostics and the later Christians 100+ years later perverted the initial message.
JMJon Miller-
I AM.CANADIAN
GENERATION 35: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.
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What Elok said... Gnostism is characterized by a Platonic view that our bodies are dirty and evil and our spirits are clean and pure - decidedly in opposition to the Jewish belief (affirmed by Jesus) that our bodies and spirits form one whole and both can and will be redeemed.“I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV)
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Originally posted by Uncle Sparky View Postbtw - Clement was the third pope and disciple of Paul - not a scholar. Most work attributed to him was written about 300 years after he died - obviously a miracle.
And yes, Clement of Alexandria was a scholar. You are dedicated to getting a bunch of stuff wrong in this thread aren't you?“I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV)
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I might add that the "Jesus's Wife" text is a fragment from the Fourth Century, ie roughly contemporary with the first Council of Nicaea. If we found a scrap of paper, dating to the 1700s, mentioning "the husband of Jeanne d'Arc" but giving scant details or context, what would we make of it?
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What is sometimes presented, and what is false, is that beliefs similar to what is believed today was not held by the early church. That the beliefs that are held today came about by manipulating the canon or something similar. Sometimes this is even presented with a conspiracy.
There were different groups that held different positions. The group that 'won' or that set Christianity as it has been for ~2000 years was already in existence before 100 AD and was the earliest group that we have record of (independent of the Bible). This group quoted from/etc the books which ended up in the Bible (and a few other books, like the Shepard one) and had theology which was mainly consistent with the theology that you see now in Christianity (at least compared to the alternates that we know about).
Yes, there were alternates, even from the very beginning. Their beliefs were not compatible with the group that 'won' and in most cases depended on books which were written much later. In many cases these alternates has clear links with pre-Christ belief systems. A reasonable interpretation would be that they had interpreted Christ to fit into their already existent belief systems (including creating books/stories to do so).
JMJon Miller-
I AM.CANADIAN
GENERATION 35: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.
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Originally posted by Elok View PostI might add that the "Jesus's Wife" text is a fragment from the Fourth Century, ie roughly contemporary with the first Council of Nicaea. If we found a scrap of paper, dating to the 1700s, mentioning "the husband of Jeanne d'Arc" but giving scant details or context, what would we make of it?Click here if you're having trouble sleeping.
"We confess our little faults to persuade people that we have no large ones." - François de La Rochefoucauld
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Originally posted by Jon Miller View PostIn many cases these alternates has clear links with pre-Christ belief systems.Click here if you're having trouble sleeping.
"We confess our little faults to persuade people that we have no large ones." - François de La Rochefoucauld
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