World’s richest woman would prefer to pay her miners $2 a day

[Hauldren Collider]

pwned

[Jaguar]

Map of the Xhosa language:



Map of minerals in South Africa:



That is how one should use google. To add supporting facts to arguments you've already contextualized. Not to exhibit superficial knowledge and dupe people into believing you know context as well.

[regexcellent]

ICE BURN

Jaguar,you've made my week. Yesterday I seriously injured my leg but it's all okay now, I don't mind, because you made my week.

Does anyone else remember the Guyanese literature thing?

[giblets]

Those maps only show that Xhosa speakers are probably not a majority of the mine workers. My week has really been made.

[Jaguar]

And I'm sure there's a handful of Mormons mining coal in West Virginia, too.

[Jon Miller]

I'm asking what you would choose. My point is, isn't it a good thing that they have a choice, so that they don't have to go with cholera? And who knows, maybe with all that money they can get filters.

You know that the minimum cost for a small apartment (2 bedroom) in johannesburg is ~1000 usd per month.

You have no clue, you have no idea of what life in South Africa or the surrounding areas is like.

They are not making any money for health care or wealth accumulation.

It is for food, and possibly for part of the cost for their families to live.

JM

[Jon Miller]

People move in South Africa, everyone moves to the major cities. Johannesburg and the surrounding area is full of Xhosa speakers.

JM
(personal experience and the experience of people who live in Johannesburg)

[Jaguar]

Cities are more cosmopolitan, but cities are also not where the miners work. And they don't pay $1000 per month in rent, either.

[Jon Miller]

This is an example of the shanties that people live who can't afford housing.

I just verified with my girlfriend, in this area (Chatsworth, a suburb/township (Indian) of Durban, picture is from the edge, her Grandfather's apartment window) a one bedroom apartment (60m) would be ~400 usd. And things are more expensive in Johannesburg.

Large groups/families live together in one house. It isn't common for people to move out. The cost is unrealistic, even for those who have decent jobs (and non decent jobs is what >50% of people have, jobs which pay less than ~360 usd per month).

Not only that but the employment rate is terrible (>40% of the youth are unemployed, my gf had a friend with an MBA degree who couldn't get a job for ~2 years). This is made worse by the fact that many Zimbabweans come into the nation. This is due to the terrible policies of Mugabe, it is even worse in Zimbabwe.

Of course there are wealthy people. In fact, for many fields people get paid the same as throughout the english speaking world.

In fact, I would expect to be paid between 50000 and 100000 usd for being a physicist.

The housing issue in South Africa is made worse by speculators (people buy houses in South Africa to sit empty, the price of houses has sky rocketed compared to other places in the world, even europe) and by government regulation (There are many areas houses could be built, but aren't).

Of course, the reason why so many houses are needed is because the africans were pushed aside, indians were pushed into tightly packed houses, and the same with colored. Of course, when people are finally allowed to have demand, demand is going to skyrocket.

JM

[Jaguar]

Even if we entertain the ridiculous fantasy that the Xhosa people of downtown Johannesburg rent downtown apartments and then reverse-commute 30 or 40 miles outwards to work in mines, all to validate molly bloom's overreach, they wouldn't be paying $1,000 to live in two-bedroom flats. A cursory search suggests otherwise, as does common sense - if many people are poor or unemployed, you can't charge lots of money for real estate.

[Jon Miller]

Cities are more cosmopolitan, but cities are also not where the miners work. And they don't pay $1000 per month in rent, either.

Their families do not live in the areas where the miners work.

JM

[Jon Miller]

Even if we entertain the ridiculous fantasy that the Xhosa people of downtown Johannesburg rent downtown apartments and then reverse-commute 30 or 40 miles outwards to work in mines, all to validate molly bloom's overreach, they wouldn't be paying $1,000 to live in two-bedroom flats. A cursory search suggests otherwise, as does common sense - if many people are poor or unemployed, you can't charge lots of money for real estate.

You don't understand the situation there.

Many people don't have apartments or homes, they live in shacks.

3600 zar for a 2bedroom apartment is very very cheap. Considering that I couldn't find a room for that price in a safe location for my girlfriend, I am doubtful.

I just talked to her, that place (CBD) is unsafe.

JM

[Jaguar]

I've just been calling out things that I think are false, like this.

You know that the minimum cost for a small apartment (2 bedroom) in johannesburg is ~1000 usd per month.

I said I doubted it, I proved myself right, and then you told me I "don't understand the situation there."

No, maybe I don't, but I can spot a false claim when I see one.

[Jon Miller]

Safety is a big concern.

Remember, the murder rate in South Africa was 10x that of the US 10 years ago (and 5 years ago).

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/26/AR2006082600286.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/1916969.stm

From 2012:

http://www.citypress.co.za/SouthAfrica/News/Joburg-SAs-most-feared-city-20120118

The SAIRR said the survey confirmed that Cape Town had the highest murder rate (46.2 per 100 000 people) in the country. It is followed by Port Elizabeth (45.7), Durban (36.9) and Johannesburg (30.6).

Johannesburg, however, top the list for aggravated robbery rate with 452.7. It is followed by Port Elizabeth (380.5), Durban (302.8) and Cape Town (297.9).

“Murder is a social contact crime that often occurs between people who know each other, while aggravated robbery mostly occurs at random.

“Given the types of crimes that most residents fear, many would consider Johannesburg to be the most feared city in South Africa,” commented the SAIRR’s Kerwin Lebone.

JM

[Jon Miller]

I've just been calling out things that I think are false, like this.

You know that the minimum cost for a small safe apartment (2 bedroom) in johannesburg is ~1000 usd per month.

Better?

And I did use the ~ to mean on the order of, as it was an estimate (I actually priced rooms and not 2 bedroom apartments).

http://www.privateproperty.co.za/sunridge-village-halfway-gardens-rr555827.htm

http://www.privateproperty.co.za/hill-of-good-hope-1-halfway-gardens-rr555753.htm

I think you underestimate how important safety is to South Africans. Of course, many can not afford to be safe.

JM