Patriotism

[Lul Thyme]

Of course disease was a major factor. I also agree about making conclusions about political systems from data.

The conclusion which I really wanted to make (which I did make but could have made clearer) is simply the following :
Contrary to what many people think, you would have a much lower chance of dying in a war (by disease or otherwise) if you were born a random person in Europe in 1900 rather than in 1600. Same goes for murder, for most areas of the world and for most time periods (earlier time periods were generally deadlier).

Again, I don't want to make any conclusion about nationalism with this, simply address the misconception that the 20th century (or the post-nationalisation world, whenever that is) was particularly violent.

[giblets]

What patriotism means to me is that, if I were to mediate between the competing interests of a person from San Francisco, Columbus, Denver, Anchorage, Portland or Orlando and one from Shanghai, Oslo, Tangiers, Islamabad, Brasilia or Canberra, I should give some sort of preference to the American, even if I don't know either from Adam. Which seems unjust and stupid right on the face of it--little more than primitive tribalism on a grand scale, like sports fandom only dangerous--but what else does it mean?

I think a better definition would be "I share a desire with people from San Francisco, Columbus, Denver, Anchorage, Portland and Orlando to support America and make it a better place and we have a shared commitment to uphold our civic duties." That doesn't mean you have to consider those people inherently superior to foreigners or attach more worth to them.

[Tupac Shakur]

What patriotism means to me is that, if I were to mediate between the competing interests of a person from San Francisco, Columbus, Denver, Anchorage, Portland or Orlando and one from Shanghai, Oslo, Tangiers, Islamabad, Brasilia or Canberra, I should give some sort of preference to the American, even if I don't know either from Adam. Which seems unjust and stupid right on the face of it--little more than primitive tribalism on a grand scale, like sports fandom only dangerous--but what else does it mean?

You don't have to favor Americans over foreigners to be patriotic. To be patriotic, you just have to be willing to murder those foreigners in cold-blood should your country ask it of you.

I have the same thought as Elok. What purpose should it serve for me to "love" someone who lives in San Diego, California rather than someone who lives in, say, Montreal, Canada... when Montreal is closer to Atlanta and San Diego is? Simply because we have the same federal government? I mean, I think our federal government and federal society has done good things and I'm happy for them, but that shouldn't automatically be given my fealty simply for that.

I like Asher a hell of a lot more than I do Oerdin, but I'll still put a bullet in him when the next great Canadian-American war comes (assuming Alberta doesn't switch sides).

patriotism is a sense of belonging and duty to a state

QFT

[Kidlicious]

yeah, patriotism is like a religion, which is why I think for a christian it's idolatry. I was patriotic twice. Once at the end of bootcamp when we all saluted the flat while whatever patriotic song was being played and once more after 9-11. Both times were short occurances.

[Elok]

I think a better definition would be "I share a desire with people from San Francisco, Columbus, Denver, Anchorage, Portland and Orlando to support America and make it a better place and we have a shared commitment to uphold our civic duties." That doesn't mean you have to consider those people inherently superior to foreigners or attach more worth to them.

Yes, but why should I support America as opposed to...any other place, really? Beyond pure self-interest. And what does it mean to support America? I pay my taxes, I obey the law, I guess I'll go to jury duty if they ever ask me. So much for civic duty, and I do most of that out of obligation. Nobody ever gave me a good reason to be enthusiastic. Oh, and I could vote, but with our political system simple math tells me there's no point in wasting gas.

I suppose I'm asking this: when a right-winger says that I ought to be patriotic, but to oppose big government, what is he asking me to be loyal to? What do I have in common with Californians, beyond the apparatus of state? The whole concept seems hazy and tenuous.

[Hauldren Collider]

You don't have to favor Americans over foreigners to be patriotic. To be patriotic, you just have to be willing to murder those foreigners in cold-blood should your country ask it of you.



I like Asher a hell of a lot more than I do Oerdin, but I'll still put a bullet in him when the next great Canadian-American war comes (assuming Alberta doesn't switch sides).

[BlackCat]

This is exactly why the US government should be overthrown an UN should take control

[Hauldren Collider]

Over my dead body.

[Dr Strangelove]

. Testicular cancer would force me to kill myself, so I'm male.

Meh. Testicular cancer is one of the most curable cancers. Just remember to feel yourself up at least once every month.

[Wezil]

Are we looking for anything in particular or is that just for self gratification?

[Elok]

Why not both? Kill two birds with, ah, two stones.

[Wezil]

What is it with you Americans and killing?!

[MrFun]

Patriotism is antithetical to critical thinking. Discuss.

[Hauldren Collider]

MrFun's threads are antithetical to critical thinking. Discuss.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Both are correct