Umpteenth shootout in the US, this time near New York's Empire State building

[kentonio]

Good for him.

[The Market]

If it is the desire of the country for there to be fewer mass shootings, the obvious answer is for businesness to produce a product superior to guns.

[DinoDoc]

In the UK he'd be arrested.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/sep/02/shoots-burglars-melton-mowbray

[kentonio]

Actually the government have been changing the laws about home defence to protect people who defend their homes. I doubt this case is going to go anywhere. They were probably only arrested because it's come at a time when the law is under transition.

[kentonio]

Right on cue..

Welby farm shooting: Couple will not face charges

A couple who were arrested after a shotgun was fired at intruders during a break-in will not face charges, the Crown Prosecution Service has said.

Andy and Tracey Ferrie were arrested on Sunday at their farm in Welby, Leicestershire, after telling police they had fired the legally-held weapon.

The couple were arrested on suspicion of causing grievous bodily harm.

The CPS said it had made the decision not to take action against the pair after an official visited their home.

On Tuesday Mr and Mrs Ferrie were released on bail as police announced that two men had been charged with burgling the property near Melton Mowbray.

Judith Walker, Chief Crown Prosecutor for the East Midlands, said: "I am satisfied that this is a case where householders, faced with intruders in frightening circumstances, acted in reasonable self-defence.

"The law is clear that anyone who acts in good faith, using reasonable force, doing what they honestly feel is necessary to protect themselves, their families or their property, will not be prosecuted for such action.

"We have therefore advised Leicestershire Police that Mr and Mrs Ferrie should be released from their bail as they will not face any charges over what happened."

Earlier, Daniel Mansell, 33, from Leicester, pleaded guilty to burglary at Loughborough Magistrates' Court and is due to be sentenced on 25 September.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-19496531

[Lonestar]

It seems as if in the UK there is no distinction between "detained" and "arrested". Is this so?

[kentonio]

You can be detained for a short period without being charged. I don't know why they chose to arrest them at the time, like I said before though the law is in transition over home defence at the moment.

[Lonestar]

Right, in the US though in a situation like this the proper term would have been "detained". Arrest has connotations of "the state is assuming you're guilty".

[snoopy369]

Sounds like they were actually arrested to me. There wouldn't be a bail if they weren't arrested. Detained in the US just means held and then released, not released on bail.

In the US, in one of these 'justifiable homicide' cases, technically they _can_ be arrested, charged, and prosecuted. They would then have to prove as an affirmative defense that they were justified in their use of force. It's just that the prosecutor uses his/her discretion and chooses not to prosecute people when the evidence clearly points to a non-culpable homicide. Perhaps in the UK they don't have that option? Or they don't like the justifiable homicide law and so choose to pursue charges?

[kentonio]

Right, in the US though in a situation like this the proper term would have been "detained". Arrest has connotations of "the state is assuming you're guilty".

It could have been as simple as a junior officer on the scene making the decision to arrest them. As they haven't been charged however, it hardly seems that important.

[kentonio]

It's just that the prosecutor uses his/her discretion and chooses not to prosecute people when the evidence clearly points to a non-culpable homicide. Perhaps in the UK they don't have that option?

That's exactly how it works here. The Crown Prosecution Service can decide whether to press ahead or drop a case if they feel the evidence is insufficient to achieve a prosecution or that there is no real case to be made.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

In the US, in one of these 'justifiable homicide' cases, technically they _can_ be arrested, charged, and prosecuted. They would then have to prove as an affirmative defense that they were justified in their use of force. It's just that the prosecutor uses his/her discretion and chooses not to prosecute people when the evidence clearly points to a non-culpable homicide. Perhaps in the UK they don't have that option?

No, we have exactly that option. The "CPS" you see quoted is "Crown Prosecution Service".

[Dauphin]

Right, in the US though in a situation like this the proper term would have been "detained". Arrest has connotations of "the state is assuming you're guilty".

"Arrested" is detained, and "charged" would be the state is believing you are guilty.

Detained in the US just means held and then released, not released on bail.

Being bailed just means you have to return to the police station at some point in the future in regards to the matter. It's a different meaning to U.S bail. For a start, you don't offer up any money, security or property.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

I really should check if someone's answered these things before typing.

[snoopy369]

Ah, thanks for the explanation, Dauphin.