Umpteenth shootout in the US, this time near New York's Empire State building

[snoopy369]

Glad you understand, Mrfun.

[OneFootInTheGrave]

Good lord, you all have a clause in your constitution saying that Parliament can override your fundamental rights simply by saying they want to? You sure you don't want guns?

Against current military, you may just as well use swords, as guns are not much better. The whole idea of guns protecting you against the government tryranny is soooo 18th century.

I can already see millions of Americans raising up from their huts wielding guns when Obama is elected again via a supreme court decision that he wins Ohio due to miscount. Trying to overthrow the illegitimate government, trying to take down the F22's with M24's and drones with handguns... I wish you best of luck in that endeavour.

[MrFun]

I can already see millions of Americans raising up from their huts wielding guns when Obama is elected again via a supreme court decision that he wins Ohio due to miscount. Trying to overthrow the illegitimate government, trying to take down the F22's with M24's and drones with handguns... I wish you best of luck in that endeavour.

This is why I laugh at the notion that armed civilians in 21st century can stand up to a modern military force.

[regexcellent]

Oh jesus, this again. Our F-22s have not managed to win us Afghanistan.

Look, this shooting happened in a state that has very strict gun laws and in a city within that state that has even stricter gun laws, and very very harsh penalties for even the most harmless of offenders. If you connect a flight through one of the NYC airports with a properly unloaded, secured, and declared gun in your luggage you're liable to be arrested and thrown in prison for at least two years.

[snoopy369]

I suspect a couple million people armed with pistols would be pretty hard for the military to control (especially given the military is a volunteer military made up of these folks' relatives). Look what trouble we're having with Afghanistan after all... they're not terribly well armed either, and a much smaller country.

[regexcellent]

My bad, I meant this one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadia...election,_1984

And it's not a Liberals vs Conservatives thing.

It resulted in the repeal of the National Energy Policy, a truly oppressive and evil act.

Put dramatically, Canada tried to steal Alberta's oil money. Instead of going to war like the American Way, we voted the bastards out and fixed it.

We have had what, 56 presidential elections so far? Something like that. Twice as many congressional elections, and thousands of gubernatorial and state legislative elections. Power changes hands here all the time without ****ing war breaking out (okay, so that happened once). Your post is stupid.

[OneFootInTheGrave]

US is losing Afghanistan because they are being "nice" ie no German style genocide with a good reason, but if they wanted to they "could".

Your hypothetical "tyrannical" government that you will want to overthrow with guns will surely not be so lenient, or in other words if it was (ala Egyptian revolution) you could overthrow it with spears and few million people on the streets instead. One way or another guns not necessary.

[regexcellent]

Hosni Mubarak was also being relatively nice. Syria is a better example. They would be way way better off if they had our level of civilian armament. They don't because Bashar Al-Assad is not a ****ing moron.

[OneFootInTheGrave]

First - Syrian military vs US military... and second -Syrians are not exactly coming out in their millions, but seems that more of the population is for Assad than for what they know will come after - "democratic" islamists. Not quite clear opposition there, but this is besides the point.

[Asher]

We have had what, 56 presidential elections so far? Something like that. Twice as many congressional elections, and thousands of gubernatorial and state legislative elections. Power changes hands here all the time without ****ing war breaking out (okay, so that happened once). Your post is stupid.

I'm glad you agree you don't need handguns to change your government.

I'm sure your world reknowned education system has informed you of your civil war, yes?

[regexcellent]

All of this is kind of irrelevant to the point at hand, though. New York's gun laws didn't stop this crime and there's no reason for anyone to believe more gun laws would make a difference.

[regexcellent]

I'm glad you agree you don't need handguns to change your government.

I'm sure your world reknowned education system has informed you of your civil war, yes?

...

(okay, so that happened once)

[BlackCat]

Hosni Mubarak was also being relatively nice. Syria is a better example. They would be way way better off if they had our level of civilian armament. They don't because Bashar Al-Assad is not a ****ing moron.

Are you seriously claiming that if syrians had acces to handguns or even rifles they would had been in a better situation ?

That claim isn't only idiotic, it's also a proof that you have no idea about how civilians fight professional military. They simply die until they get hand on nonmiltia weapons such as AAA, arty, panzer etc.

[BlackCat]

All of this is kind of irrelevant to the point at hand, though. New York's gun laws didn't stop this crime and there's no reason for anyone to believe more gun laws would make a difference.

Well, weak laws doesn't prevent crime - just implement a total ban of guns nationwide and the problem will be solved.

[regexcellent]

No it won't. Let's assume by some amazing piece of magic you manage to get enough states to actually ratify an amendment to the Constitution repealing the 2nd amendment. That's an impossible proposition, but for the sake of argument I'll roll with it. There are tons of guns in this country. I personally own two and will likely be buying a third in the next few weeks. I wouldn't hand them over, there's no way for the government to know that I have them, and this is true for almost all gun owners. Most states would have zero interest in enforcing this rule since their populations are pro-gun. That means the feds would be largely on their own in eliminating gun ownership, and there aren't enough federal police to do that.

That leaves millions of guns in the country and jack **** the cops can do about it.