Bernie Sanders exposes billionaires who are buying US government.

[KrazyHorse]

The issue is that the more rational poor people will not consider taking out a loan for anything really.

Especially since in their experience incomes are small, financial shocks are uncertain, and loans are very bad.

JM

This is blatant tripe. The payoffs to a good education for somebody who's not a marginal student are enormous. Like 5 or 10 to 1. Rational people will always take this bet for any reasonable level of risk aversion.

[MrFun]

Grow up, dude. Characterizing behavior which is criminalized after the fact through use of prosecutorial intimidation and overbroad statutes is not "theft". It's populist revenge.

You don't think there's something wrong with a system where a person who steals a bike gets more severe sentencing than a person who swindles/steals millions of dollars?

[Jon Miller]

This is blatant tripe. The payoffs to a good education for somebody who's not a marginal student are enormous. Like 5 or 10 to 1. Rational people will always take this bet for any reasonable level of risk aversion.

Except I know plenty of poor people who will not take a loan, no matter the pay off.

They are generally the more rational/careful.

JM

[Jon Miller]

Grow up, dude. Characterizing behavior which is criminalized after the fact through use of prosecutorial intimidation and overbroad statutes is not "theft". It's populist revenge.

People generally recognize it as theft, the reason it is criminalized only after the fact is due to the capture of the legal system by wealthy interests.

People who have to sell their bodies are not the rich.

So? Selling their body is a free choice, and I respect their ability to make this decision for themselves.

No one who is wealthy chooses to do so. Any guesses as to why?

People who take jobs which cause a significant decrease in health/life expectancy/quality of life are not the rich.

a) bull****, you lazy son of a *****. Stress kills. In my opinion you're a selfish bastard for refusing to work a real job amd help subsidize the less talented through taxes like I do
b) see above. I respect the ability of people to trade off risk

No one who is wealthy chooses to take the jobs where there is a significant decrease in health/etc. Any guesses as to why?

Other jobs where people have to trade off risks wealthy people are willing to take...

JM
(I am more interested in money than I ever was before.)

[kentonio]

So? Selling their body is a free choice, and I respect their ability to make this decision for themselves.

When people reach the point where selling their body starts to seem like a viable option, it's rarely something that you can call a choice anymore.

[Lorizael]

In my opinion you're a selfish bastard for refusing to work a real job amd help subsidize the less talented through taxes like I do

Well that's a silly attitude. Perhaps JM knows that were he to work a "real" job, he'd be so stressed out he'd die of a heart attack and deprive the less talented of his tax dollars. If he dies early enough, the increased pay per annum won't make up for the far fewer annums.

[Aeson]

JM would (potentially) take a higher paying job away from someone else, and someone else (probably not the same person, but totally awesome if it were) would end up filling JM's job. JM would presumably be slightly less happy with the direction he had choosing given his revealed preferences (which reveal he'd rather not), the person he out-competed for the job would likely be less happy, and the person filling JM's current job would be happier.

All this of course misses the point that KH would still be selfish (like the rest of us presumably are) for not starting up a successful business that creates jobs, invents awesome stuff, and makes the owners fabulously wealthy.

[Kuciwalker]

lump of labor fallacy

[Aeson]

We are not adding or subtracting workers from the overall economy, nor modifying their hours. We are switching a couple of chairs. While there might be a few select industries which are looking for more applicants than they can find currently, there are more that have more than enough to choose from already. The comparison between JM's current industry vs the hypothetical one in this regard would factor into if there would be an expansion or contraction of the overall demand for labor expected.

In any case, the effect of one person changing jobs would be very small indeed. Far less than the addition of a new successful business.

[Jaguar]

We are not adding or subtracting workers from the overall economy, nor modifying their hours. We are switching a couple of chairs.

lump of labor fallacy

[Kuciwalker]

This isn't even some thing where you accidentally have a hidden assumption that's wrong. Your argument is the classic version of the fallacy.

[Aeson]

I am not saying that the amount of labor demanded across an economy is static. Obviously there are quite a few ways (one of which I mentioned) in which it can change. (Adding workers to an economy will do so.) However, one person choosing to give up a job they have and pursue another job (thus no change in number of workers), especially in the current labor market, is unlikely to change the overall amount of labor demanded across the entire economy. (And if it does so, it could be positive or negative depending on the specifics of the situation.)

[Kuciwalker]

No, JM taking a higher-paying job would shift the AS curve to the right, increasing output and decreasing the price level.

[Aeson]

This isn't even some thing where you accidentally have a hidden assumption that's wrong. Your argument is the classic version of the fallacy.

The classic version would be to say that we should reduce hours worked by current workers to reduce unemployment. This isn't some sort of economy wide question of whether we should add (or disallow adding) number of workers or the modify the time they work. It's the question of the overall effect of a specific worker who is already in the economy leaving one job and trying for another.

[Aeson]

No, JM taking a higher-paying job would shift the AS curve to the right, increasing output and decreasing the price level.

Only if he finds the job, performs the job better than the other applicants would have, his replacement is hired and performs the old job worse, and/or the amount of labor demanded would increase by Jon doing so. None of which are givens and all of which have inverse potential.