CanPol: *****-umen Showdown

[notyoueither]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Lothian_question

[notyoueither]

England has (had) the wealth to continue the UK under very unfavourable political conditions (for the English).

Canada is a very different kettle of worms. Much wealth is concentrated outside the centre of political power. That has worked til now partly because two of the four regions (the West and Quebec) can act together (and have) to overthrow a federal government that was detestable to them. It is not easy for me to see a time when people of AB and BC are willing to send cheques to a central government that does not need to count their votes to make governments, ever.

[Uncle Sparky]

Back to the OP - I was at a pow-wow yesterday at the U of Winnipeg, and guess who was one of the 'gold' sponsors - Enbridge. I've never seen them sponsor a 1st nation's event in Manitoba, but they had a glossy insert in the program (other ads were printed in the program, so this looked a bit like an afterthought) praising 1st nations. Enbridge (and I'm not kidding) is sponsoring a "...school-based program on fire safety issues" for the various DOTC. DOTC (Dakota Ojibway Tribal Council) is one of the most successful 1st nations organizations in Manitoba.

[notyoueither]

Pretty much what I expect.

Harper's governement was kicking Enbridge in the ass way before the minister gave the radio interview. That pipeline is probably a bigger issue to Canadians (if they realized it) than it is to Enbridge.

[Aeson]

If these First Nations are anything like the tribal reservations in the US, the thing they hold most sacred is their government bacon. They aren't going to want to give that up.

Have you actually been to an Indian reservation or talked to someone who lives on one? Or are you just spouting off nonsense that appeals to your prejudices against Native Americans?

[C0ckney]

England bends over and takes it from Scotland.

not really. elections are almost always decided in england, which considering about 84% of the UK population live england, is not surprising. the west lothian question was an issue in the last parliament and hopefully once the referendum on scottish independence is out of the way, will be resolved.

in terms of money, there is very little difference between the amount scotland puts in and gets out of the UK. it's a difference of about 0.1% (that is to say that scotland generates/receives 9.3%/9.4% of total UK revenue/spending) either way, depending on which figures you use.

[Hauldren Collider]

Have you actually been to an Indian reservation or talked to someone who lives on one? Or are you just spouting off nonsense that appeals to your prejudices against Native Americans?

Yes, my friend Zach who passed away earlier this year was native american and lived on a reservation for a time. And I don't have any prejudice against indians, so piss off.

[giblets]

"They hold their government bacon sacred" sounds pretty ****ing offensive.

[Hauldren Collider]

The reality of almost all reservations is that they are giant rent seeking and/or arbitrage operations. Perhaps the language I used was a bit hyperbolic, but basically true.

[Fake Boris]

Why does anyone in Quebec want it to be separate, anyway? Is it about the fact that the french language is obsolete in North America?

Short answer: Separatists feel like Quebec should never have been part of Canada, period. Moderate Canadians like NYE recognize that the Québécois used to be second-class citizens, but adopt a very classical liberal approach to the solution. Now that individual rights are equal, so they say, there is no reason for Quebec to leave, (thus brushing aside communitarian aspirations).

[regexcellent]

Now that individual rights are equal, so they say, there is no reason for Quebec to leave, (thus brushing aside communitarian aspirations).

So like many nationalists movements, the Quebec separatists want free reign to destroy their own economy.

[Flubber]

So like many nationalists movements, the Quebec separatists want free reign to destroy their own economy.

For some the analysis is no deeper than " wanting their own country" so they can have their own OLympic team and flag and a seat at the UN etc. But the majority of people in Quebec do some form of analysis of the costs and benefits of the resulting nation and the decision so fr has always been that a majority has never been willing to declare for separation.

THe most the separist parties have been able to claim is majorities in favor in polls which ask confusing questions about things like " sovereignty association" with Canada. I don't think anyone knew what this was exactly other than a Quebec fantasy that they could achieve nation status while still somehow being part of Canada. I dont think anyone in The rest of Canada has any appetite for this whatsoever

[Fake Boris]

Flubber is bringing to the table another Canadian fantasy: that Quebec doesn't know or understand that separation is risky.

[Fake Boris]

So like many nationalists movements, the Quebec separatists want free reign to destroy their own economy.

Note I said communitarian, not communist.

[Flubber]

Flubber is bringing to the table another Canadian fantasy: that Quebec doesn't know or understand that separation is risky.

I was actually trying to point out the opposite. While there are those that want an independent Quebec for idealistic reasons ( and do not really care how risky it is) the majority thus far have always balanced the risks and benefits and said no thanks. There is a widespread belief in the ROC that Quebec has been quite successful in using its separation issue and electoral power to great effect to obtain huge benefits from being in Canada. Some have grudging admiration for this while others are quite bitter about what is perceived as quebecs continual whining about their treatment.