Eric WithHolder Held in Contempt

[Lonestar]

Lies. Operation Wide Receiver lost the MAJORITY of the guns.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATF_gunwalking_scandal

[/SUP]

Woof, doggy, carefully re-read my post.

The ATF took measures to make is easier to find the guns quickly for Wide Reciever. For Fast and Furious the ATF went from "taking some measures" to "taking none".

[Dinner]

Speculation time. Since the privilege applies to the President alone, how involved do you think the White House was in the operation?

It was interesting to see Republicans like the corrupt douchebag Issa (one of the lead paid Republican attack dogs on this nonissue) claim executive privilege completely covered all Bush Administration officials in cases like this but flip flop and say it doesn't the second Obama got into office. Gee, how convenient.

Such flip flopping is an obvious indication that this is nothing more than the usual election year partisan BS.

[Dinner]

Woof, doggy, carefully re-read my post.

The ATF took measures to make is easier to find the guns quickly for Wide Reciever. For Fast and Furious the ATF went from "taking some measures" to "taking none".

When those supposed measures failed in "the vast majority" of cases why do you think they matter at all?

[Lonestar]

When those supposed measures failed in "the vast majority" of cases why do you think they matter at all?

Just to be clear, your thesis is that taking no precautions expresses exactly the same level of competence and professionalism as taking some precautions?

[Dinner]

Yes, when those "precautions" almost universally fail and are worthless, as was the case in Operation Wide Receiver. No wonder they decided to ditch the expensive tracking systems which almost universally failed. Why waste public money on "precautions" which are both expensive and don't work?

I'd call not wasting public money on such boondoggles better management.

[Lonestar]

Yes, when those "precautions" almost universally fail and are worthless, as was the case in Operation Wide Receiver. No wonder they decided to ditch the expensive tracking systems which almost universally failed. Why waste public money on "precautions" which are both expensive and don't work?

I see. Too bad you didn't provide the ATF with your crystal ball in 2007 so they would know that what they were attempting for the first time wouldn't work out that well, no matter the precautions taken.

[Al B. Sure!]

I'm still trying to understand why are we arming drug dealers? Have we been importing crack cocaine into this country the past 30 years, too?

[Dinner]

It was 2005 when it was first done not 2007. Either way it was a local office experiment which didn't work so future operations tried different tactics (which also didn't work that well). I'm not seeing the difference in results other than the "precaution" wasted a bunch of public money yet you claimed the "precaution" was a key difference so I'd still like to hear the explanation of why.

Because if there isn't a key difference then all we have is the usual election year partisan BS, just like I said.

[Lonestar]

I'm still trying to understand why are we arming drug dealers? Have we been importing crack cocaine into this country the past 30 years, too?

It was an attempt to determine what the chain of custody the Cartels were using for weapons purchases was. Since we couldn't require that gunstores report all purchases, we tried to engineer it artifically.

[Lonestar]

It was 2005 when it was first done not 2007. Either way it was a local office experiment which didn't work so future operations tried different tactics (which also didn't work that well). I'm not seeing the difference in results other than the "precaution" wasted a bunch of public money yet you claimed the "precaution" was a key difference so I'd still like to hear the explanation of why.

.

Are you serious man?

I find it astounding that you think there is no difference between the two. If you had a doctor that tried a treatment that had a 10% success rate, and a doctor that just shrugged his shoulders and went "whelp" which would you assume was the more professional of the two?

Because if there isn't a key difference then all we have is the usual election year partisan BS, just like I said

Because if there is one thing that defines me, it's being a Partisan member of the GOP.

[Dinner]

I'm still trying to understand why are we arming drug dealers? Have we been importing crack cocaine into this country the past 30 years, too?

In all three cases (the two under Bush and the 1 under Obama) the goal was to catch higher up people in the cartel red handed with the guns. Sure, they could catch the low level mules but that doesn't really do anything to stop the cartels so the idea was to work with Mexican police to arrest them once the guns were delivered to cartel officials in Mexico (that way you have rock solid proof of a crime). The problem is the Mexican police were both incompetent and corrupt as they either failed to track the mules on their side of the border and in some cases even tipped off cartel members. The basic idea of catching the middle management guys instead of just the hired mules was nice but the big weak point in all three operations was the Mexican police not doing their jobs. Also these were local office operation in Arizona so it's hard to tie them to high level officials in either administration so, once again, we're back to nothing more than election year partisan BS.

[DinoDoc]

Such flip flopping is an obvious indication that this is nothing more than the usual election year partisan BS.

"You know, there's been a tendency on the part of this administration to try to hide behind executive privilege every time there's something a little shaky that's taking place. And I think, you know, the administration would be best served by coming clean on this," then-Senator Barack Obama said in an interview with CNN in 2007.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Won't someone please think of the poor victims families. I'm sure Terry Brian's family and that other family with the mexican sounding name (Zimmerman, Zapolo... whatever) are hungering for the answers.

[The Mad Monk]

Yes, when those "precautions" almost universally fail and are worthless, as was the case in Operation Wide Receiver. No wonder they decided to ditch the expensive tracking systems which almost universally failed. Why waste public money on "precautions" which are both expensive and don't work?

I'd call not wasting public money on such boondoggles better management.

Hey, I have a better idea! If you can't track the guns, don't walk them at all!

[DinoDoc]

That's just crazy talk.