Falkland Islanders to hold referendum over sovereignty

[Sava]

I'm still amazed that this supposedly civilized country couldn't handle **** in it's own backyard... in my lifetime.

[Dauphin]

I didn't move to London until late 1997, so mostly before my time...

[MikeH]

(I see that as a compliment.)

[Sava]

[MikeH]

Don't be ridiculous, he never grew up.

[Dauphin]

Mobius grew up in the early 40s?

[kentonio]

Not really. It's just something we grew up with and got on with. Plenty of bombs went off in London while I was growing up, it was just one of those things.

We're British, of course we don't make a fuss about these things.

In fact when 9/11 happened, it occurred to me that maybe some of the IRA sympathisers would finally know what it was like to live in the kind of fear that their money was supporting.

The thought did occur, yes.

[MikeH]

I have met plenty of Catholics from Northern Ireland who are around my age. I've never met one who didn't think the IRA were despicable murdering thugs and gangsters. They all have plenty of stories of fellow Catholics being recipients of 'punishment' by IRA gangsters as well.

I'm sure I tend to meet the more liberal ones as they've come over to work or study in the UK, but it's a common enough and accurate view.

[kentonio]

The IRA didn't give a **** about human life, but they also practiced restraint in their attacks. You can't deny historical fact.

They practised restraint only when they determined that mass loss of life would hurt their cause internationally. They didn't give a damn about human cost at any other time, as they showed on countless occasions. Even when they attacked supposedly 'legitimate' targets like Lord Mountbatten, they had no problem with murdering the 14 and 15 year old children who were also on the boat at the time.

No, they wanted to live and raise their kids in a united Ireland, or at the very least a Northern Ireland where they weren't treated as second-class citizens. Imagine that.

Funny how you are somehow qualified to speak for the Catholics in Northern Ireland. Shame many of them completely disagree with your nonsense.

The IRA were terrorists and cold-blooded killers when it suited their purpose, true, but they did achieve the latter goal for their Irish Catholic brethren. The tragedy is that it took so long and cost so much to get the British to act right.

The Troubles did more to hurt the Catholics of Northern Ireland than anything else you tool. While Catholics were certainly getting a crappy deal in the first half of the twentieth century, it was a time of massive upheaval throughout the empire as Britain gave up its overseas possessions and the world changed for everyone. In the decades since religion has become nearly meaningless to most of Britain and a lot of western europe and discrimination against groups based on religion became an anachronism. People in Northern Ireland are still judged on their religion purely because the Troubles reinforced that division.

Without the IRA and the Loyalist terrorists the lives of everyone in Northern Ireland would be better right now. Scotland and Wales both have devolved governments and the right to independance any time their citizens choose, and neither required the use of semtex and child murder.

[MikeH]

And they were also drug dealers. Although they did good PR by making a show of clearing out existing drug dealers - it was mainly to get rid of the competition so their 'licensed' dealers could have the territory..

[molly bloom]

The Provos were actually admirably restrained in their response to British provocations, as laid out in the link I provided.

Of course they were. And up is down, and right is left....

Bombs have devastated two central Birmingham pubs, killing 19 people and injuring over 180.
Police have said they believe the Provisional IRA planted the devices in the Mulberry Bush and the nearby Tavern in the Town.

The explosions coincided with the return to Ireland of the body of James McDade, the IRA man who was killed in Coventry last week when the bomb he was planting blew up prematurely.

The two blasts were only seconds apart and happened at about 2030 GMT, when the bars were packed with mainly teenage drinkers.

Police attempted to clear both pubs, but the bombs went off only 12 minutes after a man with an Irish accent telephoned the Birmingham Post newspaper with a warning.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/november/21/newsid_2549000/2549953.stm

Twelve minutes to evacuate a noisy, busy packed public house- how generous.

Say what you will about Mao, but the man knew what he was talking about when it came to insurgency.

And killing off insanely large numbers of his fellow Chinese, ludicrous 'home' industrialization schemes and dictatorship. Mao's army had support from the Chinese people

All actions are subject to command.
Do not steal from the people.
Be neither selfish nor unjust.

Remarks:

Replace the door when you leave the house.
Roll up the bedding on which you have slept.
Be courteous.
Be honest in your transactions.
Return what you borrow.
Replace what you break.
Do not bathe in the presence of women.
Do not without authority search those you arrest.

http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/mao/works/1937/guerrilla-warfare/ch06.htm

The I.R.A. robbed banks in the North and in Eire, ran protection rackets, and took hostages in Eire too- who exactly were they meant to be speaking for ? Perhaps they were thinking of Chicago during Prohibition.

[Tupac Shakur]

You sick little *****. Neither the IRA nor the loyalists gave a **** about human life, which is why they both spent decades murdering, kidnapping and torturing innocent people.

The IRA didn't give a **** about human life, but they also practiced restraint in their attacks. You can't deny historical fact.

You think the normal Catholics in Nortern Ireland wanted to live and raise their kids in a warzone of death and horror?

No, they wanted to live and raise their kids in a united Ireland, or at the very least a Northern Ireland where they weren't treated as second-class citizens. Imagine that. The IRA were terrorists and cold-blooded killers when it suited their purpose, true, but they did achieve the latter goal for their Irish Catholic brethren. The tragedy is that it took so long and cost so much to get the British to act right.

[molly bloom]

Those killed by British security forces, on the other hand, were majority civilian (52%).

From your link:

It is often disputed whether some civilians were members of paramilitary organisations due to their secretive nature.

In words you can understand- terrorists don't walk around with big badge or hat saying: 'terrorist' on it. As Mao would put it:

Such a belief reveals lack of comprehension of the relationship that should exist between the people and the troops. The former may be likened to water the latter to the fish who inhabit it.

I'm wondering if you have some kind of sliding scale- how many deaths are a political statement, and how many are a terrorist action ? If, for instance, the freedom fighters/terrorists in Entebbe had managed to kill some of their captives, how many deaths would be the tipping point ?

Do Leon Klinghoffer and Dora Bloch count as just 'political statements' or are they terrorist actions ?

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

2011 - 1987 = 24 years.
1998 - 1960 = 38 years.

24 < 38.

1824/38 = 48 per year
1503/24 = 62.625 per year

48 per year < 62.625 per year.

Try again.

Also 1987 is an incredibly arbitrary number. Why not do 1974-2013? That would make much more sense.

Speaking of which, using 1960 as the start date of the Troubles is way out. Late 1968 is the usually-accepted starting point.

Secondly, you're comparing Israeli deaths from all antagonists with just the IRA's toll. The IRA wasn't the only Republican terrorist group killing people during the Troubles, though. You can add on another 113 from the INLA, 29 from the Real IRA.

[MikeH]

Luckily the bomb that was found in Reading Station when I was a teenager, a few hours after I'd passed through it with my family, didn't go off. (maybe we were lucky they were such ****ty bombmakers)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reading_railway_station#Accidents_and_incidents