Poly: Conservative Stronghold?

[Wezil]

but we're supposed to lean farther right as we get older.

I went from socialist to conservative to libertarian.

I'm still stuck on libertarian but I find myself going further left on social issues as I get older. Fiscal conservatism is all that remains.

[giblets]

"If you ignore the 12 years of total collapse, he's right up there with the average Sub-Saharan African leader!"

That is not at all what I said. I was disputing the notion that Zimbabwe was particularly wealthy before Mugabe wrecked it.

[Jaguar]

I thought the "exaggeration" you were complaining about was that he was "one of the worst dictators the world has ever known." My mistake.

[Wezil]

Even 12 years of economic collapse won't put him in the worst "ever" category. Mugabe is a relative lightweight.

[Al B. Sure!]

Mugabe's only a lightweight because his country is a lightweight. Put him in charge of a country of 100 million and he'd probably be pretty up there. The vast majority of leaders in history were repressive dictators, of course, though.

To be fair to Mugabe, he began his career as a hero, elected into office, favoring reconciliation between whites and Blacks, and supported by the West. He was even knighted by Queen Elizabeth. In retrospect, the seeds of a dictator were there (consider Gukurahundi, a policy of suppression of political opponents), but it's easy to have forgotten that the world perception of Mugabe early in his political career was vastly different than today's.

[Kontiki]

About what I'd expect - slightly right-of-centre economically and fairly socially liberal.

Economic Left/Right: 1.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -3.08

[The Mad Monk]

Mugabe's only a lightweight because his country is a lightweight. Put him in charge of a country of 100 million and he'd probably be pretty up there. The vast majority of leaders in history were repressive dictators, of course, though.

To be fair to Mugabe, he began his career as a hero, elected into office, favoring reconciliation between whites and Blacks, and supported by the West. He was even knighted by Queen Elizabeth. In retrospect, the seeds of a dictator were there (consider Gukurahundi, a policy of suppression of political opponents), but it's easy to have forgotten that the world perception of Mugabe early in his political career was vastly different than today's.

If you look at it that way, imagine Genghis Kahn with modern weapons. He might just make Hitler look like Chaplin.

[Dr Strangelove]

but we're supposed to lean farther right as we get older.

Not me. I'll let you in on a little secret. In 1996 I actually paid dues to the Repulican party, and in 2000 I voted for George Bush, but by 2003 I regretted both actions. In the past several years my practice has gone from a balance of private insurance, Medicare and Medicaid to an almost purely Medicaid practice. I'm inudated with what this country does to its less fortunate people and I'm sick of it.

[regexcellent]

Err, no?

http://www.google.com/publicdata/exp...0000&ind=false

well I guess the lesson here is not to take my history professors at their word. He may have been talking about economic growth, though; gdp/capita increase year over year.

Anyway, Robert Mugabe is responsible for the genocide of 20,000 Matabele, the mass exodus of the whites (who held the wealth and experience needed to keep the economy going), and the complete collapse of the agricultural sector--the main sector of the economy--despite an abundance of excellent arable land. Rhodesia and later Zimbabwe was known as "the breadbasket of Africa" for a reason, and it is no longer because he repossessed the farms from the whites and gave them to his political cronies. The result is basically the same as what happened in the Ukraine and in China when farms were collectivized by the communists.

It amazes me that the British demanded that he be allowed to run for election in 1980.

@alby:

To be fair to Mugabe, he began his career as a hero

No, he was never a hero. He was a terrorist. Heros don't blow up a pair of airliners filled with civilians; that's what terrorists do. Heros don't place landmines on roads designed to kill civilians and not military targets; terrorists do. The kinds of things he did to black villagers to coerce them into supporting ZANLA were even more hideous, e.g. bayonetting the pregnant women of villages that refused to support him.

elected into office

He has never stood in a fair election. Even in his first election he was involved in a substantial amount of voter intimidation.

favoring reconciliation between whites and Blacks

No.

and supported by the West

which was a horrible mistake; Abel Muzorewa was much better.

He was even knighted by Queen Elizabeth

Yet another mistake which was steeped in the notion that he was some kind of liberator, when in fact at this time nobody is really more free or better off now than they were under Ian Smith.

In retrospect, the seeds of a dictator were there

No kidding! HE WAS A TERRORIST! HE RAN A MAOIST COMMUNIST INSURGENCY!

but it's easy to have forgotten that the world perception of Mugabe early in his political career was vastly different than today's.

Yes, people like to shove under the rug the fact that they were totally wrong about him despite the obvious warning signs.

[Hauldren Collider]

Saw that post on my phone, wanted to pwn it, and when I get back, Reg's already laid waste to it

Anyway, regexellent

[Kuciwalker]

pwned

[Jaguar]

I like that UMass had to extricate itself from the awkward position of having awarded him an honorary doctorate. Maybe they should have vetted him a little bit better first?

[Hauldren Collider]

[regexcellent]

The issue was that the Rhodesian Bush War was happening right around the end of the American Civil Rights movement and people drew parallels that they shouldn't have, so they saw Robert Mugabe like Martin Luther King Jr.

[C0ckney]

It amazes me that the British demanded that he be allowed to run for election in 1980.

that's hardly telling the whole story. the two resistance groups refused to stop fighting unless they were able to stand in the elections that would follow. the 'internal settlement' which led to abel muzorewa's government, failed to stop the violence. the british government negotiated a settlement which stopped the violence and allowed for the transition to independence and majority rule.

he was the leader of a resistance movement and represented the largest ethnic group (the shona). there was no other choice but to allow him to stand.

He has never stood in a fair election. Even in his first election he was involved in a substantial amount of voter intimidation.

this is true, but no one seriously argues that he wouldn't have won a fair election (rather like putin in this respect).