Azerbaijan allegedly gives Israel access to airbases

[Wezil]

That's what cease fires are for. Clear out the dead/wounded, reload and have at it.

[regexcellent]

Damn straight

[Al B. Sure!]

(They don't do it anymore).

Last month, the order came to demolish houses in Khirbat al Taweel:

The Civil Administration issued the most recent demolition orders two weeks ago.

http://www.haaretz.com/weekend/week-s-end/this-is-no-life-1.410809

So they don't do it anymore?

They did it to punish the families of suicide bombers

So you believe in collective punishment.

Let's see what the laws of war say:

No protected person may be punished for an offence he or she has not personally committed. Collective penalties and likewise all measures of intimidation or of terrorism are prohibited.

Pillage is prohibited.

Reprisals against protected persons and their property are prohibited.

-Convention (IV) relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War, Geneva, 12 August 1949, Part III : Status and treatment of protected persons, Section I : Provisions common to the territories of the parties to the conflict and to occupied territories, Article 33

Any destruction by the Occupying Power of real or personal property belonging individually or collectively to private persons, or to the State, or to other public authorities, or to social or cooperative organizations, is prohibited, except where such destruction is rendered absolutely necessary by military operations.

-Convention (IV) relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War, Geneva, 12 August 1949, Part III : Status and treatment of protected persons, Section III: Occupied Territories, Article 53

[Hauldren Collider]

Last month, the order came to demolish houses in Khirbat al Taweel:

http://www.haaretz.com/weekend/week-s-end/this-is-no-life-1.410809

So they don't do it anymore?

I was referring to the bulldozing. Enforcing eminent domain or whatever that is is something we do here, too, and it's definitely not against the geneva conventions. It's actually in the constitution!

So you believe in collective punishment.

I believe in getting results, and I also believe it's hard to punish dead people. Furthermore I believe that it's totally reasonable to find people culpable for something when they collect payment for it.

So some people lost their homes, and a lot less kids died. Now tell me with a straight face that this is a tragedy.

[Hauldren Collider]

I imagine if General Sherman had one of these, it would get Alby hard:

[Wezil]

Damn I like dark humour.

[Hauldren Collider]

The bulldozers are strangely hilarious. I kinda hate myself for thinking they're funny, it's sort of like admiring the killdozer guy.

[Wezil]

That's the thing about dark humour. You know you shouldn't laugh but you just can't help yourself.

It goes in the category of "forbidden laughter" as George Carlin used to call it - like laughing in Church.

[Al B. Sure!]

Then you are in a fairly small minority of Americans.

The interesting thing is this:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/04/jewish-support-for-obama-strong_n_1401282.html

a new poll indicates Israel is not the top political issue of American Jews, with only 4 percent calling it the most important factor in their vote.

The poll also showed Jewish voters' strong support for Obama. Twice as many said they would vote for Obama over a GOP candidate. That level of support is nearly unchanged from the same point during Obama's first presidential run.

"About three out of four American Jews voted Democratic in 2008," Wald said. "Something relatively similar is likely to occur in 2012."

Why does the GOP even bother with pandering to the Jewish lobby? They're going to vote for Obama anyway.

[Hauldren Collider]

What makes you assume they're pandering? And what makes you assume that if they are pandering, they're pandering to jews? People across the political spectrum and demographics approve of Israel. It's not some small special interest group. It's a vast majority of the entire American electorate.

[regexcellent]

Dude, I'm not talking about American Jews. Look at any gallup polls in the last 15 ****ing years and you will see that Americans overwhelmingly support Israel. It might not be the #1 priority for all of them but it is a priority.

[Al B. Sure!]

I was referring to the bulldozing. Enforcing eminent domain or whatever that is is something we do here, too, and it's definitely not against the geneva conventions. It's actually in the constitution!

It's the same thing South Africa did with the Homeland system and the forced removals. The same justifications that were used for the demolishing of Sophiatown are being used today by the Israel government.

Those in power can find superficially legal means to get what they want.

[Al B. Sure!]

The formatting of this is funny from where I copied and pasted it, but it describes the legal background for the removals in South Africa:

The 1913 Act severely limited land
ownership by Blacks and drove them to demarcated reserves,
derisively referred to as "Bantustans."
In the Act, Blacks
were restricted to 7% of the total area of the Union of South
Africa, while Whites were granted the remaining 93% of the
land.
The Act also prohibited land transactions between
"Black(s)" and "person(s) other than Blacks" in the areas
outside of the reserves.
Prohibited transactions included
sharecropping and squatting, which effectively transformed the
Black South Africans who lived in rural areas outside of the
reserves into wage or tenant laborers for White farmers.
The South African Parliament amended the 1913 Act with
the Native Land and Trust Act of 1936.
The 1936 Act slightly
increased the land available for Blacks in the reserves to a little
over 13.6% of the country's surface area.
However, the 1936
Act further dispossessed Black South Africans by denying them
direct ownership of the reserve land.
The statute substituted
individual land ownership with ownership by the South African
Development Trust, a government body that purchased land in
the released areas for "Black settlement."

It was the SA Development Trust in SA; now it's the Israel Land Administration in Israel but the hustle is the same.

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/most-arabs-can-t-buy-most-homes-in-west-jerusalem-1.280392

When an Israeli citizen purchases an apartment or house, ownership of the land remains with the ILA, which leases it to the purchaser for a period of 49 years, enabling the registration of the home ("tabu"). Article 19 of the ILA lease specifies that a foreign national cannot lease - much less own - ILA land.

Attorney Yael Azoulay, of Zeev and Naomi Weil Lawyers and Notary Office, explains that if a foreign national purchases an apartment they must show the ILA proof of eligibility to immigrate to Israel in accordance with the Law of Return. Non-Jewish foreigners cannot purchase apartments. This group includes Palestinians from the east of the city, who have Israeli identity cards but are residents rather than citizens of Israel.

Most residences in West Jerusalem and in the Jewish neighborhoods of East Jerusalem are built on ILA land. All the neighborhoods built after 1967 - Gilo, Pisgat Ze'ev, Ramot, French Hill and Armon Hanatziv - are built on ILA land. Even in the older neighborhoods of Kiryat Hayovel, Katamonim and Beit Hakerem, tens of thousands of apartments are built on ILA land and cannot be sold to Palestinians.

Not really seeing what's different there

[Aeson]

http://www.haaretz.com/weekend/week-...-life-1.410809

"The Khirbet al-Tawil compound is located in Area C, and has an agricultural designation. Part of it is under a military closure order and in fire zones, and was built without permits and contrary to the master plan.

"Over the years, 28 stop-work orders were delivered for illegal construction.

"During 2011 two stop-work orders were delivered for a pen and a tent, on behalf of which an application for a building permit had been filed. The application was rejected in a hearing before the supervisory subcommittee, and a 30-day extension was granted to restore the property to its previous condition, or any other step that the proprietors see fit.

"During 2012 one stop-work order has been delivered against a tent that serves as a storage space, and since a legal building permit was not presented, the supervisory subcommittee decided to issue a final demolition order for the structure, while granting a 30-day extension."

WTF? They need to hold hearings, have subcommittees, issue building permits... for ****ing tents?

[Al B. Sure!]

WTF? They need to hold hearings, have subcommittees, issue building permits... for ****ing tents?

Dude, they demolish solar panels:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/global-development/2012/mar/14/palestinians-prepare-to-lose-solar-panels

According to the Israeli authorities, these solar panels – along with six others in nearby villages – are illegal and have been slated for demolition.

Imneizil's solar system was built in 2009 by the Spanish NGO Seba at a cost of €30,000 to the Spanish government. According to the Israeli authorities, it was built without a permit.

The Jewish settlements in Area C are connected to the national water and electricity grids. But most Palestinian villages are cut off from basic infrastructure, including water and sewage services. Imneizil, which borders the ultra-religious settlement of Beit Yatir, currently has nine demolition orders on various structures, including a toilet block and water cistern for the school.

Comet ME is an Israeli NGO trying to circumvent these crippling restrictions on Palestinian development by harnessing Hebron's abundant natural energy sources – wind and sun.

Funded largely by the German government, the organisation has already provided tens of Palestinian villages with electricity through solar panels and wind turbines. Its goal is to reach all villages in the southern Hebron area by the end of 2013.

After the order issued against the Imneizil solar panels in September, six alternative energy systems built by Comet ME in Hebron have received demolition orders.

So because of restrictions, solar power is the only means to give Palestinian villages power but the Israeli government is demolishing these foreign-funded solar panels...