Who wants to live forever? Scientist sees aging cured

[Wezil]

What's to question? It's belief without evidence.

[PLATO]

What's to question? It's belief without evidence.

While I'm not exactly sure what you are driving at here, I believe that there are many things to "question" in that situation from a scientific approach. Picking God as your subject makes it very hard (if not impossible??) to prove or disprove any aspect of your belief. My point is not "What's to question?" however...my point is that to simply dismiss your claim with ridicule is wrong and a sign of "intellectual superiority" without basis.

I may feel that there is no chance that God is asleep on your couch...I may ask if their is any physical evidence to support your claim. What I should not do is say you are a moron for thinking that.

If your point is that belief without evidence is not questionable, then the real question your asking there is "Can faith be questioned?" My answer would, from a scientific point of view, be that everything can be questioned...and should be.

Now...There is a difference in criticizing for things in which there is no evidence and for things that there is evidence. IMO, it is not okay to say "Your a moron because you don't believe my theory that dark matter orbits pulsars!" ... does anyone even have a clue on this? However, "Your a moron because you believe the Earth is flat" is a completely different matter...we have sound physical evidence that the Earth is not flat.

Does this clear things up a bit on what I mean?

[Lorizael]

IMO, it is not okay to say "Your a moron because you don't believe my theory that dark matter orbits pulsars!" ... does anyone even have a clue on this?

I know this isn't the point, but there is a tremendous amount of evidence to support the existence of dark matter.

[Wezil]

Plato - Yeah, I think you are falling back to the old PC bit about it being impolite to challenge these things.

If a person on a street corner rants and raves to an imaginary being we rightfully consider them a bit touched but if a person tells you strange things based upon nothing more than "faith" we are expected to smile and nod respectfully.

I say BS.

[PLATO]

I know this isn't the point, but there is a tremendous amount of evidence to support the existence of dark matter.

Yeah...I agree. However...does it orbit pulsars? lol! Maybe not the best choice, but I was just watching a video on DM last night and it was on my mind?

[PLATO]

Plato - Yeah, I think you are falling back to the old PC bit about it being impolite to challenge these things.

If a person on a street corner rants and raves to an imaginary being we rightfully consider them a bit touched but if a person tells you strange things based upon nothing more than "faith" we are expected to smile and nod respectfully.

I say BS.

You have tried to categorize my point into one of simply faith. The point I am trying to make is much broader. It isn't about being PC. It is my belief that when we start becoming intellectually superior that we lose opportunities for intellectual debate and discovery.

People have become so hung up on "defending" their positions ever more and more harshly, that they are losing site of the fact that knowledge and discover come through collaboration and communication. Conflict and intransigence brought on by an attitude of intellectually superior actions leads to less growth of knowledge in my opinion.

When you are arguing an opion not based on fact, how can you justify the aura of intellectual superiority? Far from being BS, I believe it is a weakness of argument displayed by someone who doesn't have evidence. To be fair...this is usually true on both sides of an argument today. Problem is...when people adopt this communication style, it tends to keep degenerating and nothing is solved (Not that you could solve every argument, but a search for common ground surely leads us closer to solution?).

Any how...I am not a big proponent of people being politically correct. I think you should say what you think, I just don't believe that trying not to be PC gives you the unsubstatiated right to criticize in the absence of evidence.

[dannubis]

I disagree that it "logically" makes your case any better than anyone elses. First of all induction is a scientifically sound basis with many observations. Secondly, I have not said that I need an afterlife to explain anything. Finally, I agree that you are certainly entitled to your opinion...just as Lancer is entitled to his. Neither he nor you have any "evidence" to point to to say "Look! See...This proves it!".

You do confirm, with your post, that you certainly feel "intellectually superior" though...and it is my opinion that that is not the optimal way for intellectual advancement.

I only confirm with my post that you have a hard time understanding / not willing to apply the established logical thinking method which gaves us intellectual advancement in the first place. Nothing intellectually superior about it.

But if you want you can pull my finger.

[PLATO]

I only confirm with my post that you have a hard time understanding / not willing to apply the established logical thinking method which gaves us intellectual advancement in the first place. Nothing intellectually superior about it.

But if you want you can pull my finger.

I guess we will just have to disagree. I believe that I fully understand established logical thinking, but I will say that I can see your point of view...even if I disagree with it.

As far as your finger...I think not.

[notyoueither]

Saw this, decided to read DaShi's post--

From what I remember, as much as 75% of native Americans were wiped out by introduced European diseases. That's catastrophic to any civilization. Happy?

IIRC, there is significant historiography that runs to the effect that the modest ~10 to 20% loss of population due to plague did in what was left of Greco-Roman civilisation and ushered in the period formerly known as the Dark Ages in Europe.

It would likely take a bit more now due to better communications, but a relatively small loss could be hugely destructive to the advanced economies of the world.

[notyoueither]

Not all things are solved by logic.

Everyday, scientist discover things they once thought impossible. See things there never was any "evidence" for...

To me...it is intellectual cowardice to not ackowlege that your "logical" conclusions are simply based upon the "available" evidence and that there is, of course, the "possibilty" of different conclusions in the future.

You remind me of those who once insisted the world was flat because they had no "evidence" that it was round. Not a knock on you...just an observation of the intellectual "superiority" that is becoming rampant among people today.

We all need to realize that there is still far more "unknown" than "known"

To belittle someone because of their beliefs due to an exhibition of intellectual "superiority" is to show limited intellectual "foresight".

Once a belief is "proven" incorrect, then that is a different story (for example...The flat Earth society is now free game!), but until then the real intellectual will encourage everyone to fully explore their own thoughts and beliefs without being judgemental.

Just one man's opinion.

Two.

[notyoueither]

I'm sorry, but if there is a lack of evidence either way, claiming that after you die you will "set off across the stars, all the Universe my destination, and to look back and see the lives of my beloved here on Earth until we are rejoined on some sunny day when all hardship and trials that formed us are past" is either wishful thinking or a fantasy.

We do have a significant amount of evidence in the historical record that points to a great deal of human tragedy resulting from intolerance to people of differing faiths or no faith at all.

Being polite never hurt, and the opposite very often does.

[giblets]

IIRC, there is significant historiography that runs to the effect that the modest ~10 to 20% loss of population due to plague did in what was left of Greco-Roman civilisation and ushered in the period formerly known as the Dark Ages in Europe.

It would likely take a bit more now due to better communications, but a relatively small loss could be hugely destructive to the advanced economies of the world.

Europe suffered a greater percentage loss in the black death and I don't think civilization collapsed. Of course they were mostly farmers so the main economic consequence was more land per person.

[notyoueither]

Europe suffered a greater percentage loss in the black death and I don't think civilization collapsed. Of course they were mostly farmers so the main economic consequence was more land per person.

I think you've defeated your own argument.

An agrarian economy did not get knocked for six back to... an agrarian economy. Meanwhile, cities of the ancient world emptied out when the plague did in the Western Roman remains of civilization and things did go back to an agrarian economy (if I am recalling the historical details correctly, I don't have them down-pat).