Fair is fair . . . Georgia Democrats propose an anti-vasectomy bill

[DaShi]

HC's balls have dropped yet, so that's not fair.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Are you denying that you attempted to apply unattributed characteristics to me (those you expressedly portrayed as negative) that are not supported by any statements I've thus made in this thread?

A reversal of your unattributed characteristics (bemoaning the pendulum swinging too far the other way from the needed re-focus of the enlightenment does not a hankering for medievalism make), done in jocular manner?

Or are you always so humorless?

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

There are lots and lots of women who are against abortion. If you take the notion that abortion is murder, then banning it seems completely reasonable. How hard is this to understand?

EVEN IF women were to wind up in a subservient position due to lack of access to abortion, which they wouldn't, banning it would still be a good idea, on the notion that it's murder. This is not hard to understand.

There are many ways in which you can end a human life without it being murder. I could reel off many examples, but I'm sure you're already aware of them- which really does make your post here rather baffling. Were you hoping nobody would pick up the crashingly obvious flaws in it?

Or are you really one of those simple souls, entirely ignorant of law, current affairs and history, who think it's true? If you are, I have nothing but sympathy for you, but suggest you read a few books and newspapers before continuing in this discussion.

[DaShi]

I attacked Elok's argument and you for wholeheartedly agreeing with it. If you felt that my characterization of the argument was wrong, then you should have said so. But you said nothing even close to it. Instead, you attempted to apply unattributed characteristics to me (those you expressedly portrayed as negative) that are not supported by any statements I've thus made in this thread. Hence, my critique of your bland use of ad hominem.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

Get a room.

[DaShi]

There are many ways in which you can end a human life without it being murder. I could reel off many examples, but I'm sure you're already aware of them- which really does make your post here rather baffling. Were you hoping nobody would pick up the crashingly obvious flaws in it?

Or are you really one of those simple souls, entirely ignorant of law, current affairs and history, who think it's true? If you are, I have nothing but sympathy for you, but suggest you read a few books and newspapers before continuing in this discussion.

This. It's why I don't even bother responding to him.

[Elok]

Wonderfully said and I don't have a quibble with this. I have recently been struggling as well with the concept that our post-enlightenment Western thought seems to value individuality a little too much and most of all in the US, where individuality is considered paramount. Though my struggles have been not all that much in the social sphere, but more economically speaking. We (I guess I speak for the US as that is what I know) are so quick to call individuality when it applies to capitalism, than even people starving matters not a whit if we are "free" to make money. Of course, this spills over into all sorts of different spheres.

Yeah, that's a whole different problem, though I don't think too much about it since it contains elements of scary, scary economics.

I should stress that I'm not advocating government regulation of sex, or anything stupid like that; the change will have to be primarily social. Society, as a whole, will have to come to the realization that sex isn't something you can do purely for fun with no consequences. My khouria (priest's wife) is pretty active in pro-life circles, and she once made a pertinent remark: it seems that, if you look at old movies from the forties and fifties, alcoholism is rampant and portrayed as a subject of humor. Men come to work drunk, stumble around and act stupid for the whole movie...there are even nasty little jokes about drunken spousal abuse, apparently. It took a while for those attitudes to die out; now, alcoholism still happens, but it's a disgrace, and any modern movie (aside from vulgar shock films) that considered joking about it would get its funding yanked quick.

The same thing will have to happen with uncommitted sex. I don't think it will happen very soon, but there are a lot of nasty long-term consequences. Single parenting, which generally means single motherhood, is a serious problem, and it's becoming more common pretty quickly. Over half of all new mothers under thirty are unmarried now. Of course, "unmarried" doesn't always mean "alone," but when it does...eek. But then, it's not like modern marriages last long either.

[DaShi]

If only there was some central authority to make all these consequential decisions for us.

[Elok]

By the by, Imran, I put DaShi on ignore after that non-sequitur debacle in the other thread, so it'd be nice if you could keep the quotes to a minimum.

[Aeson]

Basically, your debate style is this:

"He disagrees with me! He's Hitler! Hey everyone! I found Hitler!"

I see nothing wrong with such an argument. However, calling someone Randian is just cruel....

[DaShi]

By the by, Imran, I put DaShi on ignore after that non-sequitur debacle in the other thread, so it'd be nice if you could keep the quotes to a minimum.

Best to avoid things you can't understand.

[DaShi]

I see nothing wrong with such an argument. However, calling someone Randian is just cruel....

I know. And he thought I'd just let that go.

[notyoueither]

Yeah, that's a whole different problem, though I don't think too much about it since it contains elements of scary, scary economics.

I should stress that I'm not advocating government regulation of sex, or anything stupid like that; the change will have to be primarily social. Society, as a whole, will have to come to the realization that sex isn't something you can do purely for fun with no consequences. My khouria (priest's wife) is pretty active in pro-life circles, and she once made a pertinent remark: it seems that, if you look at old movies from the forties and fifties, alcoholism is rampant and portrayed as a subject of humor. Men come to work drunk, stumble around and act stupid for the whole movie...there are even nasty little jokes about drunken spousal abuse, apparently. It took a while for those attitudes to die out; now, alcoholism still happens, but it's a disgrace, and any modern movie (aside from vulgar shock films) that considered joking about it would get its funding yanked quick.

The same thing will have to happen with uncommitted sex. I don't think it will happen very soon, but there are a lot of nasty long-term consequences. Single parenting, which generally means single motherhood, is a serious problem, and it's becoming more common pretty quickly. Over half of all new mothers under thirty are unmarried now. Of course, "unmarried" doesn't always mean "alone," but when it does...eek. But then, it's not like modern marriages last long either.

I hope you are not holding your breath.

[regexcellent]

There are many ways in which you can end a human life without it being murder. I could reel off many examples, but I'm sure you're already aware of them- which really does make your post here rather baffling. Were you hoping nobody would pick up the crashingly obvious flaws in it?

I'm saying that IF YOU THINK IT'S murder, which means you think it's ending a human life in an unacceptable and immoral way, then certain things follow.

[Hauldren Collider]

By the by, Imran, I put DaShi on ignore after that non-sequitur debacle in the other thread, so it'd be nice if you could keep the quotes to a minimum.

Good move. I've had him on ignore for almost 6 months