Fair is fair . . . Georgia Democrats propose an anti-vasectomy bill

[notyoueither]

Well, the embryo can't drive on its own and does not currently expend significant extra resources such as food, so the tiniest bit of thought would reveal the answer: "no." Still, that's some nice snark.

Actually, I'd say that the added expenses of pregnancy and nutritional needs would justify a yes to questions 2 and 3.

[Imran Siddiqui]

What is so reasonable about forcing someone to wait for a medical procedure?

A 24 hour waiting period can allow for rational reflection rather than simply an emotional response to an unplanned pregnancy. Not saying that no one thinks it true, but I imagine quite a few women freak out and are in an emotional state of panic when they go to a clinic.

[giblets]

Also, I should point out that just because an activity is protected by the first amendment does not mean it is acceptable behavior. There is something wrong with the people who protest soldier's funerals with "God hates fags" signs. There is something wrong with people who harass women on their way to a clinic to get an embryo removed.

[Elok]

"An embryo removed." Jon's talking like an extremist here, but what a ridiculous way to put it. If we'd had an abortion ten months back, we would have removed a slimy little thing that didn't even look human. Nevertheless, that slimy little thing was still the exact same organism that's now lying on the bed between my legs making gurgling noises. The fact that he had not attained a certain degree of development is utterly irrelevant to that essential identity.

Furthermore, denigration-by-description is at its core meaningless because it can be applied to almost anything; the degree to which it is effective depends largely on the degree to which the thing described can be isolated from our sentiments about it. Is an embryo "a lump of cells," as it's been called by at least one other poster in this long, tired thread? Sure. So are you. You're just a much bigger one, with some bones and sundry other non-cellular bits which have nothing to do with your essential humanity. The whole trick is an appeal to sentiment, not reason, and you should be ashamed to use it. And if you don't agree, hand your sweetheart a bouquet of roses and say, "here, I got you a bunch of dismembered plant vaginas."

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

What is so reasonable about forcing someone to wait for a medical procedure?

A 24 hour waiting period can allow for rational reflection rather than simply an emotional response to an unplanned pregnancy. Not saying that no one thinks it true, but I imagine quite a few women freak out and are in an emotional state of panic when they go to a clinic.

This. It gives them time to get a higher price on craigs list and ebay. Thus they have a better data point for the decision.

[giblets]

"An embryo removed." Jon's talking like an extremist here, but what a ridiculous way to put it. If we'd had an abortion ten months back, we would have removed a slimy little thing that didn't even look human. Nevertheless, that slimy little thing was still the exact same organism that's now lying on the bed between my legs making gurgling noises. The fact that he had not attained a certain degree of development is utterly irrelevant to that essential identity.

Furthermore, denigration-by-description is at its core meaningless because it can be applied to almost anything; the degree to which it is effective depends largely on the degree to which the thing described can be isolated from our sentiments about it. Is an embryo "a lump of cells," as it's been called by at least one other poster in this long, tired thread? Sure. So are you. You're just a much bigger one, with some bones and sundry other non-cellular bits which have nothing to do with your essential humanity. The whole trick is an appeal to sentiment, not reason, and you should be ashamed to use it. And if you don't agree, hand your sweetheart a bouquet of roses and say, "here, I got you a bunch of dismembered plant vaginas."

Exact same organism? Yeah, and I guess if zombies were real then they would be the exact same organism they were before they died and became zombies, except that zombies don't have any thoughts or feelings and are a threat to the lives and property of actual people.

[Elok]

Well, as soon as zombies actually exist, we can no doubt have a fascinating discussion of the Romero school of ethics. At least the "famous violinist" was theoretically possible. Sheesh.

[Lorizael]

And if you don't agree, hand your sweetheart a bouquet of roses and say, "here, I got you a bunch of dismembered plant vaginas."

Mine would be thoroughly amused if I said that.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

Nothing you have said provides any defense or excuse for the murder of a child just because they have not yet taken a breath of their own.

Quit trying to find an excuse, there is none.

I'm afraid there are plenty of excuses. Just not ones you agree with. However the laws of both our lands do.

[Elok]

Mine would be thoroughly amused if I said that.

So would mine, actually, but that's hardly typical. You can use it, but you have to credit me. 'Kay?

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

It seems that the abortion die-hards fundamentally think that women should have the right at any moment to abandon their role as mothers, or else they lack the freedom of men.

The freedom to not be pregnant? Sure. I'm cool with that.

[The Mad Monk]

Legal right does not confer moral right, though many like to pretend it does.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

It sure as hell provides an excuse, though.

[The Mad Monk]

Yes, an excuse.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

Which is what I was discussing with Jon. Do you want to join in on my side, seeing as we agree? It'll be fun.