When is it okay to call someone a bigot or accuse them of hating?

[DaShi]

Terrible. Not only do you deny the teachings of the church. You state clearly that what you think the teachings should be is superior while still claiming to be one of them. Why not just join the "Believe whatever you want" religion? Everyone is invited and can do whatever they think is right.

[Jon Miller]

Exact definition of lukewarm christian. If you don't follow your church's beliefs then find another church that shares similar beliefs or start your own. I at least had the balls to renounce my association with the Church when my beliefs were no longer consistent with theirs.

I think that religious association is a powerful thing.

I don't disagree much with my denominations claimed doctrines, but I do disagree with several of them in practice. And I strongly disagree with several of the things which are common but not claimed doctrines.

That being said, I am a Christian first and a Seventh-Day Adventist second. That isn't to say that I think doctrine is not important, like you will find for many who are nondenominationally inclined, but that no denomination I have found I 100% agree with.

I think that religious association and church traditional is a very important part of human's relationship with God, and that Christians should stay together as a church, so I stay where I am most comfortable.

And my problem with the ecumemical movement is that it tries to erase doctrinal disputes. Yes, you find all sorts of doctrines even in the Seventh-Day Adventist denomination, but I do think that doctrine is important.

JM

[DaShi]

You know, I'm a Christian too now. I don't believe that Jesus was the savior. He was a guy. He did some good things. But savior, no. Excuse me while I go study the Torah.

[Imran Siddiqui]

To humor Dashi:

I'll agree that as individuals we all have our failings. Some do better than others. However, as a christian, you have agreed to follow a certain moral code. That code must be believed to be superior than others and must be the requirement that you use to judge the behavior of others. Thus, people of other religions, no matter how perfect they are, can never reach the same level of morality that is possible for someone of your own religion. Now going back to the level of religion itself, other religions must appear morally inferior. To believe otherwise would be blasphemous.

The "certain moral code" is imprinted on every individual's heart (see C.S. Lewis "Mere Christianity"). It is, to be succint, the "Golden Rule", aka Jesus's 2nd Commandment. The 1st Commandment is love God with all your mind, heart, and soul - but we all have different opinions of how to accomplish that. It can be to worship God in Christian churches or to do His work in the community. Regardless, I don't judge people morally on how (or if) they worship - that is between them and the Creator. However, the idea that we must treat our neighbor as ourselves is something that is central to Christian faith and something that is central in the creation of "Christian moral code". Many other faiths (if not all of them) have a variation on the theme - it is the truth that unites humanity.

FTR, I consider the knowledge that Jesus has completed the Story of Isreal in reconciling Creation back to God allows for an easier motivation to treat our neighbor as ourself.

[Jon Miller]

Terrible. Not only do you deny the teachings of the church. You state clearly that what you think the teachings should be is superior while still claiming to be one of them. Why not just join the "Believe whatever you want" religion? Everyone is invited and can do whatever they think is right.

I strongly disagree with that and would love to discuss, reason, and talk about doctrine and belief with fellow Christians.

I even favor denominations, so that those who think similarly in some ways, can associate together. I sorta wish we could kick the Phelps church out of Christianity, but that is impossible (and not really desirable). But at least I can say his church is not part of my denomination.

JM

[Jon Miller]

You know, I'm a Christian too now. I don't believe that Jesus was the savior. He was a guy. He did some good things. But savior, no. Excuse me while I go study the Torah.

You would be as Christian as several theologians/pastors/etc that I know.

As I said, I wouldn't call you a Christian.

JM

[Imran Siddiqui]

Why not just join the "Believe whatever you want" religion? Everyone is invited and can do whatever they think is right.

Well, as a Christian Universalist, I do believe those folks will also be resurrected when a New Heaven and New Earth arise. However, I do believe that "whatever they think is right", if they truly sit down and think about it, will follow the 2nd Commandment of Jesus - love your neighbor as yourself. If they work for that end, then I welcome them to do so.

[DaShi]

To humor Dashi:



The "certain moral code" is imprinted on every individual's heart (see C.S. Lewis "Mere Christianity"). It is, to be succint, the "Golden Rule", aka Jesus's 2nd Commandment. The 1st Commandment is love God with all your mind, heart, and soul - but we all have different opinions of how to accomplish that. It can be to worship God in Christian churches or to do His work in the community. Regardless, I don't judge people morally on how (or if) they worship - that is between them and the Creator. However, the idea that we must treat our neighbor as ourselves is something that is central to Christian faith and something that is central in the creation of "Christian moral code". Many other faiths (if not all of them) have a variation on the theme - it is the truth that unites humanity.

FTR, I consider the knowledge that Jesus has completed the Story of Isreal in reconciling Creation back to God allows for an easier motivation to treat our neighbor as ourself.

Yes, and moral code is a belief. God forgives sinners, but they have still sinned.

[DaShi]

Well, as a Christian Universalist, I do believe those folks will also be resurrected when a New Heaven and New Earth arise. However, I do believe that "whatever they think is right", if they truly sit down and think about it, will follow the 2nd Commandment of Jesus - love your neighbor as yourself. If they work for that end, then I welcome them to do so.

Congratulations, you just validated Scientology as a legitimate religion.

[Imran Siddiqui]

We have all sinned, believer and non-believer alike.

[DaShi]

Yes, individually. You are very frustrating to talk to and I'm losing patience with it. Either you are only looking to score easy points and are thus being deliberately thick, or you truly can not hold more than one thought in your head at a time.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Likewise.

[Kidlicious]

You know, I'm a Christian too now. I don't believe that Jesus was the savior. He was a guy. He did some good things. But savior, no. Excuse me while I go study the Torah.

What do you think? He was a bigot?

[Elok]

I highly doubt you'll find much in the way of theological agreement with moral relativism, Elok.

It's not moral relativism, it's mind-your-own-business-ism. As St. Paul (I believe) put it, "Who are you to judge the servant of another?"