A question for our Dutch posters.

[Dinner]

Watch this video, it's of one of the Republican front runners to become President of the USA and he's claiming that 10% of elderly people in the Netherlands are "involuntarily euthanized" (killed by doctors without their permission) and so, he claims, older people in the Netherlands avoid going to the doctor because they supposedly fear for their lives.



This claim, of course, smells like complete bull**** and sounds like just another GOP lie (Dah evil socialized health care has da death panels!") especially since this week Santorum has renewed his proven false claims that the American health care reform bill contains death panels where politicians will get to decide who lives and who dies. So, anyway, I'd like to hear it from the horse's mouth from one of our Dutch posters about how full of **** Santorum and the GOP is.

[MikeH]

I don't believe that anyone could be stupid or ignorant enough to believe that claim.

[Zoetstofzoetje]

lolololol

people that are near death due to something incurable can request euthanasia, if they feel they are suffering more than is acceptable as quality of life.

the health industry has created various drugs that allow one to postpone death for a number of incurable diseases, yet the journey only becomes longer and more painful. there was a newsitem recently on research on doctors with incurable diseases. apparently, almost all of them die a quick death, and refuse to take any drugs to prolong their life, as they have seen time and again what it turns the patients into.

[Zoetstofzoetje]

btw our politicians might be boring, but if i had to choose between one of your FUD puppets and our grey mouse bureaucrats, i´d choose the mouse in a heartbeat

[Dinner]

I don't believe that anyone could be stupid or ignorant enough to believe that claim.

Last night he won the Repubican primaries in three states. It seems a whole lot of people were stupid enough and ignorant enough to believe his outlandish claims. That says something about the lack of information among Republican voters.

[dannubis]

Watch this video, it's of one of the Republican front runners to become President of the USA and he's claiming that 10% of elderly people in the Netherlands are "involuntarily euthanized" (killed by doctors without their permission) and so, he claims, older people in the Netherlands avoid going to the doctor because they supposedly fear for their lives.



This claim, of course, smells like complete bull**** and sounds like just another GOP lie (Dah evil socialized health care has da death panels!") especially since this week Santorum has renewed his proven false claims that the American health care reform bill contains death panels where politicians will get to decide who lives and who dies. So, anyway, I'd like to hear it from the horse's mouth from one of our Dutch posters about how full of **** Santorum and the GOP is.

Typically, this is how it is supposed to work:

1. Patient asks doctor to end his suffering.
2. 3 doctors have to convene and need to reach a consensus to see if the patient's request is valid

So, ONLY at the request of a patient and ONLY if 3 doctors agree euthanasia is granted.

Now, my grandfather (90 years old) has had progressive lung deficiency for the past 10 years. He is at his end (measuring 1.75 m and only weighing 47 kg) so 3 days ago he asks his doctor to end his life. 2 doctors agree but 1 mother****er from a Catholic hospital refuses. So my grandfather can suffer for 2 more weeks before he will finally die (all 3 doctors agree he won't live to see the end of the month).

I wonder why these sadistic religeous mother****ers think they have the right to prolong someones suffering (against his explicit wishes) without any realistic possibility for a solution.

[Dinner]

You're sadistic religious mother ****ers might refuse to grant mercy but our sadistic religious mother ****ers simply make up complete bull**** so that ignorant worthless piece of **** Republican voters without health care can continue voting for them and voting against politicians who would actually get them decent health care. "But, but, but... Sarah Palin, Donald Trump, and Rick Santorum all said the evil communist socialist doctors just want to MURDER grand-dad!!!!1111!!!!ONE!!1"

We need to nationalize all education in this country because it's absolutely ****ing obvious that decentralizing it into 50 different states (most of which decentralize it to the county or city level) is resulting in drooling idiots. I mean absolutely ****ing drooling idiots and worse the GOP loves that they're so stupid because their politics REQUIRE most people to be ****ing completely stupid.

[dannubis]

Ah well... my grandfather passed away a few hours ago. It is sad that he's gone but I am happy he didn't have to suffer for another week.

[Dinner]

Sorry to hear it, man.

[Elok]

Yeah, that sucks. My grandmother passed away this past Sunday, but I barely knew her since she lived really far away. It must be tough for my mom, though.

How are the doctors for your euthanasia-consulting panels chosen, anyway? I mean, if a doctor opposes pretty much all euthanasia...isn't that kind of like putting a PETA member on the inspection committee for slaughterhouses? "I'm shutting you down." "Why?" "Because you're doing bad things to animals in there, you meanie!"

[dannubis]

Thanks.

Elok, I am sorry for your loss.

How the selection works I don't know. The thing is, they all 3 agreed to perform the euthanasia. But then the management of the hospital intervened and had one of the doctors reverse the desicion.

[DinoDoc]

It seems to be a wild exaggeration of the legal status active non-voluntary euthanasia has in the Netherlands which I doubt is widely used.

[The Mad Monk]

Last night he won the Repubican primaries in three states. It seems a whole lot of people were stupid enough and ignorant enough to believe his outlandish claims. That says something about the lack of information among Republican voters.

The problem is most of us really don't want the Party's annointed, and are unwilling to to through McCain again, so we WILL go through EVERY other candidate until none are left or the Party gets the message.

Oh, and an old style "brokered convention" by the Party to do an end run around this = me voting for Obama.

[DinoDoc]

The problem with your POV is that most of the people that would have been better than the current crop refused to run.

[The Mad Monk]

If Romney wins via the primaries, I will vote for him. The idea of brokering to avoid another candidate getting the nod is outrageous.