The Defenders of Gondolin were Insular Upper-Class Snobs.

[Tupac Shakur]

At least he made the minimal effort required to Google the thread topic.

[MRT144]

I suppose we're lucky he didn't then go into a tirade about how stupid reading is.

[Donegeal]

Of course he did, he has nothing else to do. Besides, didn't you know that googling a topic makes you an immediate expert on any subject without having to actually learn it or read the book?

[Lorizael]

Of course he did, he has nothing else to do. Besides, didn't you know that googling a topic makes you an immediate expert on any subject without having to actually learn it or read the book?

It's true. I saw an article online about this.

[loinburger]

QFT. I actually like that the First Age stuff reads more like history than heroic fantasy, but I can understand why that's a turn off to most people.

It's just that everything is so under-stated - the awesome parts and the dull parts all get equal attention. The battle with the Witch-King in Return of the King lasted for several pages, IIRC, while the battle between Fingolfin and Morgoth lasted for three paragraphs.

[Dr Strangelove]

I enjoyed Tolkien's books, but you're right about the whole "everything was better in the first age" aspect. Tolkien was about as reactionary as they get.

[BeBMan]

I only read LOTR and the Hobbit, and reading LOTR first I was a tad disappointed with the lighter tone of the H. Should have informed myself better so I could have read them vice versa, but oh well

[Elok]

I enjoyed Tolkien's books, but you're right about the whole "everything was better in the first age" aspect. Tolkien was about as reactionary as they get.

I don't think it's just him being reactionary (though he wasn't what you'd call progressive AFAIK). The whole Middle-Earth ethos is steeped through with a Medieval/Catholic/Medieval Catholic sensibility. It's all about the fall and ruin and a dark and perilous world that lost its beauty.

[Elok]

It's just that everything is so under-stated - the awesome parts and the dull parts all get equal attention. The battle with the Witch-King in Return of the King lasted for several pages, IIRC, while the battle between Fingolfin and Morgoth lasted for three paragraphs.

Well, in that particular instance, I believe Fingolfin came up to about mid-shin on Morgoth, so the dramatic possibilities might be somewhat constrained.

[Dr Strangelove]

The whole Middle-Earth ethos is steeped through with a Medieval/Catholic/Medieval Catholic sensibility.

I rest my case. There was nothing beautiful about the medieval world.

[Elok]

I take it you've never seen an illuminated manuscript, or a cathedral? I mean, yes, Western Europe was rubbish compared to the obviously superior East (Minas Tirith/Osgiliath/Minas Ithil are located around where Constantinople would be relative to the Shire's England), but we can't all be perfect.

[Archbob]

Well, then Doriath were even bigger Dicks.

[Imran Siddiqui]

I only read LOTR and the Hobbit, and reading LOTR first I was a tad disappointed with the lighter tone of the H. Should have informed myself better so I could have read them vice versa, but oh well

To be honest, I kind of liked that. The lighter tone of the Hobbit was more enjoyable after the seriousness of LOTR.

[Tupac Shakur]

Well, then Doriath were even bigger Dicks.

Thingol's folk fought Morgoth for years before the Noldorin exiles finally reached Beleriand, and it was wise to bar most of the Noldor from passing to Girdle given their concealment of the Kinslaying and the treacherous nature of the sons of Feanor. Even with its closed border, Thingol's daughter and her future husband carried out the greatest act of heroism in the entire First Age, and shelter was provided to many, including the children of Hurin. Gondolin's achievement pale in comparison to those of Doriath.

[Dr Strangelove]

I take it you've never seen an illuminated manuscript, or a cathedral? I mean, yes, Western Europe was rubbish compared to the obviously superior East (Minas Tirith/Osgiliath/Minas Ithil are located around where Constantinople would be relative to the Shire's England), but we can't all be perfect.

Small fragments of beauty that can't even begin to offset the overwhelming brutality and ignorance of the era. If Tolkien had been honest he's have made the hobits serfs forced to work for their masters, who probably would have been men.

Actually I thought the map of Middle Earth looked sort of like western Britannia, with the shire being in central Wales and the main river being the Severn.