on hold with amex fraud services

[KrazyHorse]

I did deliberately post it to bother alby, though. Glad it worked so nicely...

[KrazyHorse]

Oh, I forgot.

Livin' the life:

[Kuciwalker]

From amex's analysis it looks like we've spent 14k or so in bars and restaurants in the last 12 months. We've also saved well over 100k.

Livin' the life:

That seems a bit gauche, though maybe it's just the New York prices.

[MikeH]

It's almost as though you've never heard of a cloned credit card.

BTW, the usual means of obtaining card info is in restaurants. The waiter takes your card and skims the card before running the legitimate transaction.

Still no chip and pin over there?

[Lorizael]

I had dinner at a place called Panera - Panera Bread - specifically. It's one of those quick-casual restaurants, kind of a hybrid between fast food and a sit down. It specializes in breads, giving it a kind of bakery-type feel. I ordered two courses, a bowl of macaroni and cheese and a smokehouse turkey panini grilled on artisan three cheese bread. The macaroni and cheese was delicious, but when they brought it out I was forced to complain because it was clearly shells and cheese. I considered this false advertising. Additionally, they refused to tell me which artist made the artisan three cheese bread. I also ordered a Mountain Dew, which came in a plastic cup rather than a glass. The total for the bill was >$10. Interestingly, they refused to accept any gratuity from me. I probably won't be going back. There are so many better restaurants in the Gaithersburg/Rockville area.

[The Mad Monk]

Still no chip and pin over there?

Some cards have chips, but Americans being the enterprising folk we are, our criminal set has found a way to make chips less secure than magnetic stripes.

They put together a portable chip scanning unit that can fit in a backpack or case, and walk around malls with it collecting RF signals.

They figure out the PINs later.

[MikeH]

Our chips for chip and pin aren't RF chips, you have to put them physically into a machine to read them. And the chips can't be copied apparently.

[MikeH]

Also restaurants all have wireless chip and pin readers, so the waiter never leaves the table with your card. Chances of doing a sly swipe reduced (though still very possible).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chip_and_PIN

[The Mad Monk]

Digital Pick Pockets Use Homemade Devices to Clone Credit Cards
Updated: Friday, 04 Nov 2011, 12:05 PM MST
Published : Thursday, 03 Nov 2011, 5:25 PM MST

By Tisha Lewis, FOX Chicago News

Chicago - Call them high-tech pick pockets with the potential to wipe out bank accounts in seconds. Credit card cloning is big business, very sophisticated and very high tech.

The time it takes to count to three, the 16 digits on several credit cards are compromised during a demonstration on West Madison Street in Downtown Chicago.

“So now there's the data that I stole - there's a credit card number there,” Rob Havelt said. He’s the director of penetration testing at Trustwave’s Spider Labs.

Hiding in household items are home-made hand-held stealing machines.

“This is a payment terminal that you see in any store,” Havelt said. “We just bought one and took it apart so like you can get it for $15 on EBay and it's hooked up to some wires. Basically it's a keyboard input into the iPad and there's a battery pack in here just to power it.”

Radio Frequency Identifiers, known as RFIDs and illegal skimmer devices, can snatch, lift, rip and swipe credit card numbers from unsuspecting, innocent consumers.

Consumers should use extra precaution at restaurants, public and unsecured ATMs, hotels and gas stations – that’s where consumers are most susceptible to having their credit card information compromised.

Trustwave is a global provider of on-demand data security. Joel Dubin has been tracking the troublesome technology for nearly a decade. Dubin is a Security Consultant at Trustwave.

“The people that are making them are making them from scratch or they're taking components from card readers,” Dubin said. “Assembling them and then adding antennas that can capture card numbers.”

"How-To" guides online offer advice on "a stand alone RFID skimmer" by which "an attacker can make purchases using a victim's RFID-enhanced credit card." FBI Supervisory Special Agent Todd Carroll said it is illegal to possess one of these devices.

“In terms of a cloned credit card, I have here a test card,” Dubin said. “This is a magnetic stripe that's on the back of the card and then what they do is they take the information which is called track data from that card and there's machines that they can purchase for $300-$400 that can recreate card.”

In a controlled setting on West Madison Street, Trustwave employees walked by as FOX Chicago witnessed a doctored device transfer credit card data to an iPad.

In an interview, Carroll explained the three things consumers can do to protect themselves.

“One, pay attention to your credit card bills - just don't blindly pay them. Look at all the charges and make sure you had made all those charges and there isn’t an extra charge put on to your account,” Carroll said.

“Two, protect yourself when you go to use your card and when you're making a purchase. Use your credit card, probably more than you use your ATM,” Carroll continued. “Especially if you need to put your PIN in and it’s directly taken out of your checking account, you might want to use your credit card instead.”

“Another thing as always, you need to run a credit report and find out what's out there, what accounts you have open still,” Carroll concluded.

All of the credit card numbers scanned in the demonstration belong to Trustwave employees who agreed to participate.

So how do you know if there is an RFID chip in your credit card? Pull the card out and feel around for a raised spot on the card above the numbers. Once found, consumers can deactivate the RFID without getting a new card. Simply use a hole-puncher to pop the chip out.

Additional advice from the FBI to avoid becoming a victim:

•Use a bank that you trust that will back you up if there is a problem
•Don’t use your ATM card at a “point of sale” terminal
•Use ATM machines/ point of sale terminals in grocery stores (well lit, heavily populated, daily monitoring)
•Make sure accounts that you have asked to be closed are closed and that there are no additional accounts under your name.
•Some wallets also come with wire mesh that can protect your card information.

http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/dpps/news/immigration/digital-pick-pockets-homemade-devices-clone-credit-cards-radio-frequency-identifiers-skimmers-20111103_15789960

[MikeH]

Yes, that's why we aren't using RFID chips.

[Elok]

My bar tab on Saturday was far higher than that, and I barely got a buzz on.

Given the amount you drink regularly, and the fact that you're in Manhattan, this shouldn't surprise anyone.

[KrazyHorse]

Still no chip and pin over there?

The credit card companies bear the vast majority of the costs of fraud, so given that they also control the adoption of security measures to prevent it*, my initial reaction to this issue is that the associated costs of increased security (including customer annoyance) outweigh the reduction in fraud.

*note that coasian equivalence makes this condition unnecessary, but it does remove a possible objection, namely that transaction costs are so high as to prevent reaching the efficient equilibrium.

[MikeH]

Yes. I think that's mostly right. Although not sure on customer annoyance. Also I think the main resistance here was from shops/restaurants reluctant to spend money on new point of sale computers.

Do they still have the culture in the US where it's generally accepted that people can use other peoples credit cards? eg. child can borrow parents credit card etc?

[loinburger]

I made twenty pounds of spaghetti last Saturday, and so dinner this week this spaghetti. Last week I made twenty pounds of pork loin and potatoes. I usually have a ribeye sometime during the weekend. I'm not particularly frugal, I just live alone and don't like eating in restaurants by myself.

[MikeH]

How often do you eat loinburger?