Pakistan Charges Doctor with Treason...

[DinoDoc]

How did we **** it up?

I'd like to know that as well.

[Fake Boris]

Anyone yet has mentioned that this might be the action of a certain section of Pakistan's judicial system, and that the regime is too weak to do anything? ("Activist" judges)

[Felch]

Even if the ISI was breaking Pakistan's laws AND even IF the ISI really was hiding Osama, I would maintain it was treason. (If so, some ISI dudes would deserve serious jail time).

The doctor was secretly working with a foreign intelligence service.

BTW So far as I know the doctor did not expose anything himself. The doctor did get exposed as working with the CIA.

According to US and Australian law, you are wrong. There is nothing inherently treasonous about working with a foreign intelligence service. Treason requires that the foreign power be an enemy. The only definition for treason I can find for Pakistan is Article 6 of their Constitution.

6. High treason.
(1) Any person who abrogates or subverts or suspends or holds in abeyance, or attempts or conspires to abrogate or subvert or suspend or hold in abeyance, the Constitution by use of force or show of force or by any other unconstitutional means shall be guilty of high treason.]
(2) Any person aiding or abetting [or collaborating] the acts mentioned in clause (1) shall likewise be guilty of high treason.

By that definition the doctor might be guilty of treason, assuming that vaccinations are unconstitutional.

[Imran Siddiqui]

How did we **** it up?

First things first, we found out Pakistan was working on nukes (it was as secret as Isreal having nukes is a secret), but waited until the Cold War was basically over to deny the Pakistanis 25 F-16s they had purchased from the US government (still undelivered, IIRC). In addition, the US decided to cozy up to India after the Cold War, even though India went back and forth between the US and USSR by the day. These two things pissed off the Pakistanis to no end. Furthermore, the US decided to give India a slap on the wrist for their nuclear weapons program compared to Pakistan.

Pakistan basically felt stabbed in the back.

[kentonio]

According to US and Australian law, you are wrong. There is nothing inherently treasonous about working with a foreign intelligence service. Treason requires that the foreign power be an enemy.

He aided a foreign power to carry out an aggressive act on Pakistani soil without permission of the Pakistani government. How is that not treason? If a US citizen helped Israel assassinate a Turk in New York, do you really think that person wouldn't be facing serious charges in the US?

[Hauldren Collider]

Frankly, cozying up with India is a safer bet anyway. If I had to pick between Pakistan and India as my ally, India is the obvious choice.

[Hauldren Collider]

He aided a foreign power to carry out an aggressive act on Pakistani soil without permission of the Pakistani government. How is that not treason? If a US citizen helped Israel assassinate a Turk in New York, do you really think that person wouldn't be facing serious charges in the US?

Depends on if the Turk was an internationally wanted terrorist with a multimillion dollar price on his head.

[Felch]

He aided a foreign power to carry out an aggressive act on Pakistani soil without permission of the Pakistani government. How is that not treason? If a US citizen helped Israel assassinate a Turk in New York, do you really think that person wouldn't be facing serious charges in the US?

Treason has a definition. It's not just whatever the hell you want it to be. I posted the Pakistani definition above.

As far as the US citizen helping Israelis, it would probably be criminal, but not treason. Murder is a crime in itself.

Frankly, cozying up with India is a safer bet anyway. If I had to pick between Pakistan and India as my ally, India is the obvious choice.

Obviously. India is cosmopolitan, democratic, much bigger, and not actively trying to kill Americans.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Back in 1990(ish), it wasn't trying to kill Americans anyways. And the dictatorship (Haq) was supported and basically put in place by the Americans.

[Hauldren Collider]

That's nice, Imran, but it's still a complete ****hole next to India and almost always has been. And that's saying something.

[SlowwHand]

Actually, Pakistan has some of the nicest land in the area.

[Hauldren Collider]

The problem is the people there will kill you for suggesting that you shouldn't kill people who make fun of muhammad.

[giblets]

That's nice, Imran, but it's still a complete ****hole next to India and almost always has been. And that's saying something.

Neither of them have been particularly great places to live. What are you basing this statement on? India being more consistently democratic?

[kentonio]

Treason has a definition. It's not just whatever the hell you want it to be.

Quite true. I believe the US definition also includes the amended Espionage Act 1917. Titles 18 U.S.C. §793 (Gathering, transmitting or losing defense information) and §794 (Gathering or delivering defense information to aid foreign government) would probably be relevant. It's possible that they wouldn't because you could argue that a private residence may fall outside the strict definitions, however as he gathered information to aid a foreign government to carry out an act of unlawful aggression on sovereign soil, I think it would definitely come under some definition of treason. Perfectly possible I'm talking out my ass here of course, but given previous treason cases it seems a reasonable assumption.

[Hauldren Collider]

The US definition of treason is in the Constitution. It is not in statute.