Pakistan Charges Doctor with Treason...

[kentonio]

The difference is that one is the result of a bunch of ********* refusing to get treatment because they're scared that the americans might be trying to track down terrorists, and the other is where we literally blow them to smithereens. There's a qualitative difference there.

No, the main danger is governments refusing to allow access to organizations trying to do vaccination work because they'll be afraid the CIA is using them as cover. Then lots of people get to die of perfectly preventable illnesses because of a paranoia the CIA caused.

[Hauldren Collider]

Well that just shows why secret operations ought to remain secret...

[kentonio]

Well that just shows why secret operations ought to remain secret...

Dude..

http://humanosphere.kplu.org/2011/07/has-the-cia-compromised-global-health-in-hunt-for-bin-laden/

[Imran Siddiqui]

The sad part is that there likely was no closer an ally during the Cold War than Pakistan. Us ****ing that up was really a very, very bad idea.

[Egbert]

Working for, or with, a foreign intelligence service IS treason. That doctor was working with the CIA without the knowledge and consent of the government of Pakistan. He is therefore a traitor.

Sorry, innocent until proven guilty. If he did work with the CIA it was treason.

[Felch]

The sad part is that there likely was no closer an ally during the Cold War than Pakistan. Us ****ing that up was really a very, very bad idea.

How did we **** it up?

[Felch]

Working for, or with, a foreign intelligence service IS treason. That doctor was working with the CIA without the knowledge and consent of the government of Pakistan. He is therefore a traitor.

Sorry, innocent until proven guilty. If he did work with the CIA it was treason.

No, that's not true, at least not in any civilized country. In the US and Australia, it's only treason if the foreign power is an enemy. Otherwise it would be treason for your intelligence people to collaborate with our people. Theoretically, Pakistan is an ally, and it's not treason for an American to cooperate with them, and it probably isn't treason for one of them to work for us. It's certainly not treasonous if it's targeting a mutual enemy.

In reality, Pakistan is our enemy. They make bull**** claims about how they're fighting terrorism, and about how many thousands of their police and soldiers have died, but those are just a cynical blood sacrifice. It's clear that the upper echelons have no love for the US, and they are showing it by punishing the man who helped us track down bin Laden.

[Dinner]

The ISI was breaking Pakistan's own laws when they were hiding OBL, and they definitely were hiding him, yet this Doctor who helped exposed that his own government was breaking it's own legally passed laws gets charged with treason? What a load of horse ****. Put sanctions on Pakistan now.

Yes, we'll have to bring stuff in from Turkmanistan instead of via Pakistan but the Pakistanis are already funding the Taliban and US contractors already pay protection money to both the Pakistanis and to the Taliban so I say just deal with Turkmanistan and stop dealing with these two faced bastards. Alternatively, China has offered to help for a price and supplies can be brought in via Tibet.

[Egbert]

No, that's not true, at least not in any civilized country. In the US and Australia, it's only treason if the foreign power is an enemy. Otherwise it would be treason for your intelligence people to collaborate with our people. Theoretically, Pakistan is an ally, and it's not treason for an American to cooperate with them, and it probably isn't treason for one of them to work for us. It's certainly not treasonous if it's targeting a mutual enemy.

In reality, Pakistan is our enemy. They make bull**** claims about how they're fighting terrorism, and about how many thousands of their police and soldiers have died, but those are just a cynical blood sacrifice. It's clear that the upper echelons have no love for the US, and they are showing it by punishing the man who helped us track down bin Laden.

I think we agree that it is not treason if it is WITH THE KNOWLEDGE AND CONSENT OF THE GOVERNMENT. Our intelligence people work with your intelligence people with the knowledge and consent of the government.

That doctor was doing his own thing. Without the knowledge and consent of the Pakistan government.

BTW If an Australian doctor was working for the CIA to get DNA samples, for any reason, I would like to see him prosecuted for treason. And I wouldn't appreciate it coming to light that the CIA had been doing things behind our backs ie not going through our government or our intelligence service.

[Egbert]

The ISI was breaking Pakistan's own laws when they were hiding OBL, and they definitely were hiding him, .

You are jumping to conclusions.

[Dinner]

It wouldn't happen in Australia because the Americans almost always work hand in hand with the British so it's hard to claim that working for the intelligence service of your national sovereign & head of state is treasonous behavior. Seriously, looking how closely intertwined the militaries/governments of the two nations are in places like Iraq and Afghanistan it's almost hard to believe they're not the same country. They've taken the whole alliance thing from WW1 & 2 and then upped it by an order of magnitude.

[Egbert]

It wouldn't happen in Australia because the Americans almost always work hand in hand with the British so it's hard to claim that working for the intelligence service of your national sovereign & head of state is treasonous behavior. Seriously, looking how closely intertwined the militaries/governments of the two nations are in places like Iraq and Afghanistan it's almost hard to believe they're not the same country. They've taken the whole alliance thing from WW1 & 2 and then upped it by an order of magnitude.

Yep. But if I were a Pakistani I would still want that doctor tried for treason.

[Dinner]

Again, I'm not sure. The ISI was clearly breaking Pakistan's own duly passed laws so you could reasonably claim that he was working to expose illegal wrong doing on the part of the ISI and thus his actions were patriotic.

[Egbert]

Again, I'm not sure. The ISI was clearly breaking Pakistan's own duly passed laws so you could reasonably claim that he was working to expose illegal wrong doing on the part of the ISI and thus his actions were patriotic.

Even if the ISI was breaking Pakistan's laws AND even IF the ISI really was hiding Osama, I would maintain it was treason. (If so, some ISI dudes would deserve serious jail time).

The doctor was secretly working with a foreign intelligence service.

BTW So far as I know the doctor did not expose anything himself. The doctor did get exposed as working with the CIA.

[DinoDoc]

Yep. But if I were a Pakistani I would still want that doctor tried for treason.

Was the location of OBL a closely guarded State secret? I will grant you that we seem to have not been allies in any meaningful sense of the word since Kahn's governmental efforts at nuclear proliferation but we're hardly enemies so what treasonous act has he committed.