Is it time for a real war? :(

[Dinner]

Non-related: Hung around bucharest tonight, met a middle-aged Syrian refugee, that escaped from the fighting, gave him some 20 Lei to get some food. Had a nice chat, he bummed a couple of smokes from me. Good times.

So you and Mobius decided to go to Romania at the exact same time? I bet you two are going on some sort of sex tourism thing together.

[Dinner]

One really wonders about somebody whose father fled from Lebanon to Philadelphia

In his defense he did flee back so Albie's dad is smarter than some.

I can see it now: "Holy **** this Philadelphia place has more people getting murdered each day than Beirut! I'm going back to the war zone; anything is better than Philly."

[Asher]

Classic. Just classic.

One side of this conflict believes in granting full liberties, citizenship and equality to everyone irrespective of ethnicity, gender, religion and sexual orientation. That's not propaganda, it's simple established fact. It's as true in the United States as it is in Australia. It is you who have "bought the propaganda" because you draw a moral equivalence between democratic countries and Islamist thugs who would kill you for your atheism and sexual orientation without a moment's thought.

The Islamist side of this conflict believes that:
- Their faith should be imposed on others;
- Democracy is an abomination, and an illusion, and a mere product of Zionist propaganda;
- Women are next to nothing. If a woman offends her family's "honour" she should be killed;
- The punishment for adultery, apostasy, conversion from Islam to another faith, blasphemy and other crimes against the faith is death (as is currently practised in Iran and as would have been the case in Turkey if it were not for the international outcry against it).

There is no equivalence.

I love how you've unintentionally demonstrated my point precisely. Your post is ridiculously misinformed and full of propaganda.

And no, I don't expect you to know any better nor do I expect you to be capable of knowing better.

There is equivalence, you're just a moron who buys propaganda.

This whole bull**** about the US being the "free" world is utter horse****. The US is borderline a Christian theocracy, and if the GOP & Tea Party had its way it'd truly be not much better than the most hardcore Islamist regimes. ****, Bush ran his campaign in 2004 with homophobia and Islamaphobia being some of the fundamental tenets.

The US is the land of the "free", where you always have bills being passed with the express purpose of taking away rights and ensuring people who are in conflict with their Christian morality always do without those rights.

[Asher]

And you seriously need to do some education about the whole Israel/Arab conflict.

The fact that Israel occupies land that wasn't theirs until 1948 certainly has nothing to do with it, right? The fact that Israel actively invades its neighbours and sends missiles and airstrikes into neighbouring countries on a fairly regular basis means nothing, right? The fact that they openly shoot any Arab that seems to approach their borders is just them defending themselves, right? Israel also invaded and still occupies land from those invasions, pretending like it should be theirs anyway.

Here you are, treating Arabs like some caricature of evilness that must all have the exact same beliefs. All while trying to demonstrate I'm wrong in saying you're a ****ing moron who buys into propaganda.

You're no better than the numbskull mainstream German populace that read anti-Jew propaganda on a regular basis and started believing in it. They, too, thought they were generally right in forcing the Jews to leave the land (or killing them). It's the kind of reprehensible mentality you get when you've got a below-average IQ.

[Asher]

For the record, does Israel grant full liberties when it bulldozes villages, sends commandos on a ship to shoot up the people on it, or massacres unarmed students near the border? Do you view death as the ultimate liberty?

Also:

According to a 2009 report from the U.S. State Department Bureau of Democracy, Human Rights and Labor, Israel falls short of being a tolerant or pluralistic society. According to the report, Israel discriminates against Muslims, Jehovah's Witnesses, Reform Jews, Christians, women and Bedouins. Israel only recognises and protects Jewish holy sites, ignoring and neglecting all Christian and Muslim sites. All 137 official holy sites are Jewish

A major issue is the lack of civil marriage, as opposed to religious marriage, in Israel. A couple wishing to marry must do so through a religious ceremony

Secular people seem to be actively discriminated against as well.

Many areas of Israel also fall under the jurisdiction of military courts.

In 2009, Israel came 93rd out of 175 in the Reporters Without Borders Press Freedom Index.

This puts Israel behind Kuwait, Lebanon, UAE, Guinea.

In 2003, Israel's film board banned from commercial screenings (in cinemas) a film about the 2002 Battle of Jenin.[45] The film, titled "Jenin, Jenin", was a collection of interviews with residents of the Jenin refugee camp filmed in April 2002, a week after the battle. Mohammad Bakri, an Israeli Arab, directed the film. The film was banned due to its allegations of war crimes committed by Israeli forces

In January 2011, the Israeli parliament endorsed a right-wing proposal to investigate some of Israel's best-known human rights organisations for "delegitimising" its military. The investigations would entail inquiries into the funding of several human rights groups that have criticised Israeli policies. The Association for Civil Rights in Israel described the parliament's decision as a "severe blow" to Israeli democracy, and critics labeled the policy as "McCarthyist"

Freedom

The 2005 US Department of State report on Israel wrote: "[T]he government generally respected the human rights of its citizens; however, there were problems in some areas, including... institutional, legal, and societal discrimination against the country’s Arab citizens."

[Dinner]

The whole "they weren't there before 1949 (except for when they were)" thing is as retarded as the IRA saying Protestant Irish in the north aren't really Irish because they weren't there before the 16th century.

[Asher]

The whole "they weren't there before 1949 (except for when they were)" thing is as retarded as the IRA saying Protestant Irish in the north aren't really Irish because they weren't there before the 16th century.

You only think it's retarded because it's inconvenient.

[Zevico]

Here you are, treating Arabs like some caricature of evilness that must all have the exact same beliefs. All while trying to demonstrate I'm wrong in saying you're a ****ing moron who buys into propaganda.

Quite the contrary. You're just projecting an assumption you hold about my views, which flatly contradicts what I've already stated to be my views. What nonsense.

You're no better than the numbskull mainstream German populace that read anti-Jew propaganda on a regular basis and started believing in it. They, too, thought they were generally right in forcing the Jews to leave the land (or killing them). It's the kind of reprehensible mentality you get when you've got a below-average IQ.

First, there were many intelligent adherents to Nazi doctrine. Being intelligent does not mean that one understands the world. Even smart people can swallow lies and propaganda whole.

This whole bull**** about the US being the "free" world is utter horse****. The US is borderline a Christian theocracy, and if the GOP & Tea Party had its way it'd truly be not much better than the most hardcore Islamist regimes.

Bush won, by the way. Twice. He had a Republican Congress and Senate. If you weren't already on planet spaceball, you would easily be able to observe that they neither implemented, nor tried to implement, a theocracy. If there was a time to do it, it was then. They had the numbers. Where was it, Asher? Where was that vaunted theocracy of yours? Once again this is because you simply assume that your political enemies are theocrats in the face of overwhelming proof to the contrary.

[Asher]

BTW, Zevico, Israel does not grant "full liberties, citizenship and equality to everyone irrespective of ethnicity, gender, religion and sexual orientation."

Last I checked, Israel would ban me from marrying. Just like other backwards theocratic nations, like Egypt, Iran, and the USA.

[Asher]

Quite the contrary. You're just projecting an assumption you hold about my views, which flatly contradicts what I've already stated to be my views. What nonsense.

I'm certainly not projecting anything.

You've said, quite literally: "The Islamist side of this conflict believes that:"

This quite clearly is you demonstrating the universal opinion of all people in Islamic countries that oppose Israel.

First, there were many intelligent adherents to Nazi doctrine.

And I'm sure you'd have considered yourself one of them.

I have a hard time believing anyone who bought Nazi propaganda (or pro-Israel, or pro-Arab propaganda) is intelligent. Intelligent people see through that ****.

Perhaps the Australian standards of intelligence are just below mine, however.

Bush won, by the way. Twice.

He had fewer votes than Gore when he "won". Democracy FTW?

He had a Republican Congress and Senate. If you weren't already on planet spaceball, you would easily be able to observe that they neither implemented, nor tried to implement, a theocracy. If there was a time to do it, it was then. They had the numbers. Where was it, Asher?

I assume you just do not get international news in Australia if you are honestly did not hear about the Christian Bull**** Bush put through while he was in power.

[Zevico]

I'm certainly not projecting anything.

You've said, quite literally: "The Islamist side of this conflict believes that:"

This quite clearly is you demonstrating the universal opinion of all people in Islamic countries

Rubbish. Islamism is a set of political beliefs. Basically it is the imposition of a certain interpretation of the Islamic faith on society as a whole. The basic philosophy is that their interpretation of Islam is the answer to every political and social problem. In addition there are other beliefs, e.g., that democracy is an inherent evil. These are the beliefs of Islamists, not Muslims.

You can be a Muslim without being an Islamist.

I make no claim about Islam.

I make claims about Islamism and those who practice it.

I do not claim that every person living in Iran, Egypt etc is Islamist. Quite the contrary.

The distinction between Islamism (a political ideology) and Islam (a religion) is well known. The fact that you are unaware of it is surprising. The fact that you made assumptions about my beliefs without knowing (or bothering to check) what they were is disappointing, but everyone makes mistakes.

I have a hard time believing anyone who bought Nazi propaganda (or pro-Israel, or pro-Arab propaganda) is intelligent. Intelligent people see through that ****.

Naive nonsense. If you're brought up and told every day that someone is your enemy you will believe it unless you are exposed to credible alternative sources of information. And most people in the Arab world aren't exposed to such.
There are innumerable examples of intelligent racists in human history. It is mistake to assume that they are stupid simply because they make an uninformed assumption. People make uninformed assumptions about many, many things. Superstition was once very common place and medical science was nothing more than quackery. Does it follow that those who knew nothing of the fact, but thought that quack medicine worked, were not intelligent, simply because they themselves did not test the medicine in question by hypothesis and believed what their society told them to be true and commonsensical? Where the merest hint of dissent from orthodoxy could render them social outcasts or perhaps even be put to death?

He had fewer votes than Gore when he "won". Democracy FTW?

Electoral college. Do you know what it is?

I assume you just do not get international news in Australia if you are honestly did not hear about the Christian Bull**** Bush put through while he was in power.

Rubbish.

[Traianvs]

Classic. Just classic.

One side of this conflict believes in granting full liberties, citizenship and equality to everyone irrespective of ethnicity, gender, religion and sexual orientation. That's not propaganda, it's simple established fact. It's as true in the United States as it is in Australia. It is you who have "bought the propaganda" because you draw a moral equivalence between democratic countries and Islamist thugs who would kill you for your atheism and sexual orientation without a moment's thought.

The Islamist side of this conflict believes that:
- Their faith should be imposed on others;
- Democracy is an abomination, and an illusion, and a mere product of Zionist propaganda;
- Women are next to nothing. If a woman offends her family's "honour" she should be killed;
- The punishment for adultery, apostasy, conversion from Islam to another faith, blasphemy and other crimes against the faith is death (as is currently practised in Iran and as would have been the case in Turkey if it were not for the international outcry against it).

There is no equivalence.

Dude, Israel is not a democracy. It's an ethnocracy at best. Arab Israelis have to acknowledge they live in a 'Jewish' nation. There supposedly isn't something called an 'Israeli' nation, because that would mean Arab Israelis would be on par with Jewish Israelis. In reality Arabs are 2nd rate citizens, and then I'm not even talking about the occupied territories.

It's a tragic irony that a group of people persecuted to near extinction only 65 years ago would base its own national myth on pretty much the same (or similar) 'genetic' origins as the nazis did under Hitler. Despite lacking proper evidence, many Jews in Israel try their best to prove that the Jews are genetically 'unique', a most important feature as they would then hold their proof of identity, the 'final' proof that they are different from their Arab neighbours.

You're pitting a democracy that doesnt exist against an islamism which is only held by Hamas. Hamas =/ Palestinians. It's like saying the Tea Party = America. If that were the case the US wouldn't be any better than any of the clown countries Asher mentioned.

[Traianvs]

Zevico: http://inventionofthejewishpeople.com/about/
Read it. Free yourself from the propaganda. Seriously.

[Az]

Ahhh, yes. Free yourself from the Propaganda by reading this book that your people don't exist. Great great stuff.

[Hauldren Collider]

Asher, let's make a running tally of your astounding displays of ignorance.

1. You equated "islamic" with "islamist" (my personal favorite)
2. You think that the Jews showed up in Israel for the first time in '48
3. You compare Israel to Iran because it doesn't have gay marriage
4. You think the West has indoctrinated the idea of Arabs as "race enemies"
5. You pretend not to understand that the President of the United States is not actually directly elected

This is a very impressive list