Third time lucky, for Germany?

[C0ckney]

At first thought you'd think nobody would disagree with that. In reality, it's usually the anti-integrationist side that tries to keep power away from the European parliament (as well as its reform, for it to become more representative), and instead attempts to keep power at the Council level.

this is so much hot air. i mean, who are these 'anti-integrationists' at the european political level? there is a very cosy consensus about the EU and its direction between the european political class. note the surprise in the media when a 'euro-skeptic' party, like true finns, does well on the continent.

of course there are those who are not happy with the direction that the EU is taking. namely, the people of europe. however, their views don't matter to the political class, as evidenced by the whole european constitution/lisbon treaty episode. european political leaders tried to sell the new, more integrated europe to their people, they failed in several countries and had to force the irish into a ridiculous, undemocratic farce to get the final document through. so now they have a new strategy. instead of seeking the consent of the people they are supposed to represent, they simultaneously play down the importance of the EU to the common man, while centralising power in brussels without any democratic mandate or control.

[Agent Sox]

I don't believe this because it doesn't make sense that Germany would waste a lot of resources on the two world wars if it could just conquer Europe peacefully later.

[BeBMan]

Wow, missed lotsa fun it seems.

- Joschka Fischer, former German Foreign Secretary


These people just don't give up.

Even worse, some people don't get quotes right

[Felch]

I don't believe this because it doesn't make sense that Germany would waste a lot of resources on the two world wars if it could just conquer Europe peacefully later.

Is Agent Sox retarded, or just somebody's DL?

[Lorizael]

iirc, he believes in time travel.

[Cort Haus]

I'm not sure that time works that way round, Sox.

[BeBMan]

That's not mutually exclusive

[Cort Haus]

Wow, missed lotsa fun it seems.



Even worse, some people don't get quotes right

Apologies if the quote was wrong. I saw it somewhere and used it as I saw it. Not that the OP has actually been discussed at all - this is Poly after all.

[BeBMan]

Apologies if the quote was wrong. I saw it somewhere and used it as I saw it. Not that the OP has actually been discussed at all - this is Poly after all.

I tried to find the quote, and the only thing apart from a handfull of websites having that exact quote in English I got were German articles referring to a book by Fischer from 1995, where he discussed the future of the just unified Ger, asking that as a pointed question, not formulating a policy goal or something. edit: certainly not making a "should" statement.

[VetLegion]

Hurrah, an interesting thread!

this is so much hot air. i mean, who are these 'anti-integrationists' at the european political level? there is a very cosy consensus about the EU and its direction between the european political class. note the surprise in the media when a 'euro-skeptic' party, like true finns, does well on the continent.

of course there are those who are not happy with the direction that the EU is taking. namely, the people of europe. however, their views don't matter to the political class, as evidenced by the whole european constitution/lisbon treaty episode. european political leaders tried to sell the new, more integrated europe to their people, they failed in several countries and had to force the irish into a ridiculous, undemocratic farce to get the final document through. so now they have a new strategy. instead of seeking the consent of the people they are supposed to represent, they simultaneously play down the importance of the EU to the common man, while centralising power in brussels without any democratic mandate or control.

QFT.

Nigel Farage FTW

My favourite EU politician.

In a couple of months I get to vote whether to enter EU or not, and I will vote NO.
Unfortunately Croats are not very smart, they see that EU countries are rich
and they mix up correlation and causation, thinking that they are rich because
they are in EU, thus, enter EU we must.

There is absolutely nothing good that EU does that can't be done via bilateral treaties.
And there is an awful lot of bad things about the federation, such as Cockney said.

Regarding what Az wrote about Europe being relevant, frankly, who cares about being
an international player? One of the better things about the EU is that it's such a mess
WRT foreign policy and can't get anything agreed. It would be just awful if we had
another "playa" ala the US who wants to "project power" and intervene in conflicts
around the world. I frankly think France is already being too enthusiastic about her
African campaigns (of which Libya is only one).

The best thing for EU to do would be to revert to a free trade area. Not possible,
but there is still hope Croatia stays out and we get to watch the EU turning into the
SSSR from the outside.

[Dauphin]

Is Agent Sox retarded, or just somebody's DL?

Somebodies' DL.

[VetLegion]

[Whoha]

-I do also think that the British empire played a much stronger role in driving towards the cluster**** which was called the two world wars than the what average Brit really like to admit.

**** off. The German early twencen psycho-state was largely responsible for the horrors of WWI and ESPECIALLY WWII.

The British empire both invented the concentration camp, and forced absurd war reparations onto Germany.

[Cort Haus]

The Boer war CCs were hardly the same as Nazi death camps though, and the US ran CCs for Japanese, didn't they?

Also it was France who were keenest to punish Germany at Versailles.

[Cort Haus]

Vet, you're right. I think Croatia would regret joining the EU.

As Cockney indicated, the EU elite have complete contempt for the wishes of the people, and have ruthlessly demonstrated this again and again.