Thread in which the world laughs at America

[Jon Miller]

I have read up and studied a bit about the South African part, which is arguably one of the worst nations.

I don't think the US played any role in making it worse.

I doubt that the US played any role in any nation in making it worse. It might have not done what it could/should have done to make it better... but that is a very different thing.

JM

[notyoueither]

... and why would someone be ashamed of an open pit mine?

[notyoueither]

I have read up and studied a bit about the South African part, which is arguably one of the worst nations.

I don't think the US played any role in making it worse.

I doubt that the US played any role in any nation in making it worse. It might have not done what it could/should have done to make it better... but that is a very different thing.

JM

So where we differ is in concluding that some American policies have made things worse or not. Fair enough. I believe they have.

[Jon Miller]

I would bet a lot of people are, especially in places like Greenpeace.

My point was that I can't really be ashamed of what Canada does other than via shared humanity (or Canada being my ally).

Because Canada can make their own choices.

And I personally don't get ashamed about every choice taken which I do not support, I do not get ashamed about every mistake, and I do not get ashamed about every poor implementation.

JM

[Jon Miller]

So where we differ is in concluding that some American policies have made things worse or not. Fair enough. I believe they have.

Have you seen any study suggesting so? If so I would be interested in reading it.

JM

[giblets]

I said I'd. As in I would be ashamed [if I were an American.]

It is not just that US aid did not fund condom use. It is that they tried to get others to do the same, as well as the silly abstinence only campaigns.

US efforts have contributed to the epidemic nature of HIV in parts of Africa.

Wow, that sucks.

[notyoueither]

I would bet a lot of people are, especially in places like Greenpeace.

Yes, there are whack-jobs out there that are ashamed of some things that most people regard as silly.

I didn't say I'd be ashamed of open pit mines in Sweden (if I were a Swede) or mountain top removal in the US (if I were an American) alhough the mountain top removal strikes me as a possible if I knew enough about it to form an opinion other than 'ick, that sounds awful.'

I'd be ashamed of the seal hunt if it were run as an activity for tourists. I'm not because it is a way of life for a culture (a few cultures, actually). Knowing about the issue can lead one to the ick, or away from it.

[notyoueither]

Have you seen any study suggesting so? If so I would be interested in reading it.

JM

I'm looking for references in a book I read recently.

[Zevico]

Honestly, do we think South Korea can't defend itself against North Korea? That Japan can't defend itself against China?


EDIT: maybe "incapable" is a better word than "can't" for the idea I'm trying to express.

It would certainly be more difficult for them.
As I said, SE Asia isn't my area. But, Taiwan for example is always on the Chinese radar. Who knows what would happen absent your fleet and projected air force power? There's no way Taiwan can defend itself on its own on that account.
Still your question has made me more curious about the issue so I'll read up on it.

[Jon Miller]

Wow, that sucks.

When you hear it you think 'oh, that is awful'.

But then when you see how debate/etc goes on in Africa, you realize that claiming that the west is responsible is patronizing to the Africans.

This opinion is based on South Africa mostly, one of the worst hit nations as far as HIV goes.

JM

[notyoueither]

Apologies. I was mistaken in recollecting the material from the book I read. I got it confused with church group activities in Africa.

It is needle exchanges that the US government is/was pathologically opposed to and ties the absense of to funding. Not the same as condoms, but still, there are a lot of drug injectors.

The book is 'Wisdom of Whores: Bureaucrats, Brothels, and The Business of AIDS' by Elizabeth Pisani. She discusses the policy (from 1988, pre Bush) on around page 250 and on the following several pages.

[Guynemer]

It would certainly be more difficult for them.
As I said, SE Asia isn't my area. But, Taiwan for example is always on the Chinese radar. Who knows what would happen absent your fleet and projected air force power? There's no way Taiwan can defend itself on its own on that account.
Still your question has made me more curious about the issue so I'll read up on it.

We do not have troops in Taiwan.

[Zevico]

We do not have troops in Taiwan.

True. Never suggested otherwise; referred to American naval and air power with respect to Taiwan.

[Guynemer]

I'm really not getting the Taiwan point.

[Tupac Shakur]

There's no point to get.