A Game of Thrones - TV Show Discussion Thread

[Dinner]

I think there's a reason why they show the talk between Robb Stark and Roose Bolton in the pre-title "recently on GOT" thing. It's to make clear the attack on Winterfell is led by "his bastard". From what the show portrays, at this point it would be reasonable to assume the Ironborn around Dagmer burned down Winterfell on their way out.

Yeah, they tried to drop a hit but leave it unspelled out at the same time.

[Dinner]

It's pretty clear in the show too. I simply wasn't paying attention the first time I saw it.
Just watched it again and it is clear.
Of course in the show this is basically only one sentence and it is not very hard to miss it.

That's the thing. In the book they spell everything out so it is clear to everyone where as in the show you have 15 seconds to convey an idea and maybe it isn't completely clear to everyone.

[Ecthy]

The fate of Winterfell is also very clear in the book as opposed to the show; some of that is due to the changes the show made to the Winterfell/Theon plotline, and some of it due to the show clearly wanting to maintain some secrecy regarding the issue. I think Imran explained it in a spoiler box upthread a bit.

I think there's a reason why they show the talk between Robb Stark and Roose Bolton in the pre-title "recently on GOT" thing. It's to make clear the attack on Winterfell is led by "his bastard". From what the show portrays, at this point it would be reasonable to assume the Ironborn around Dagmer burned down Winterfell on their way out.

[Guynemer]

The fate of Winterfell is also very clear in the book as opposed to the show; some of that is due to the changes the show made to the Winterfell/Theon plotline, and some of it due to the show clearly wanting to maintain some secrecy regarding the issue. I think Imran explained it in a spoiler box upthread a bit.

[Sir Og]

It is clear in the book, if a bit muddled in the show; I'm not sure if the show wants to keep it a mystery for now or not, so I'll put in answer in a spoiler tag:

Spoiler:

In the book, Jon and Qhorin are never captured in the first place, but are trying to get back to the others to warn them of the Wildling army. They eventually get caught by a Wildling group (led by Rattleshirt, including Ygritte), but before they do, Qhorin tells Jon that he must infiltrate the Wildlings to learn their plans, and that he must not hesitate to do anything they ask. When the Wildlings find them, Jon goes over to them, Qhorin calls him a coward, and Rattleshirt orders him to kill Qhorin to prove his loyalty. Jon realized that Qhorin knew that would happen all along.

It's pretty clear in the show too. I simply wasn't paying attention the first time I saw it.
Just watched it again and it is clear.
Of course in the show this is basically only one sentence and it is not very hard to miss it.

[OzzyKP]

That seems unlikely considering Theon's and his men's reactions to the whole siege thing.

I also could not get what exactly happened with Jon Snow and the other captured guy? Why the other guy attacked him and why the wildlings freed him after he killed him?

Yea, what Imran said. Halfhand figured that Snow killing him was the ultimate way for him to gain their trust and infiltrate the wildlings.

As for Theon, he certainly believed that an enemy was there. His men though seemed to act pretty casual. I didn't get the sense that they were rushed or worried. Just "ho hum, put a bag on his head and let's go home".

The only other option, that the son of Robb's closest advisor burned down the city himself? For what purpose? What would he hope to accomplish? If he wanted to defy the Starks (and his dad) why not join with the Greyjoys? That clearly didn't happen. He seemed to be following Robb's orders in telling the Iron Islanders that they would be free to go if they handed over Theon. Why follow Robb's orders there and then just burn the place down? What would be their motiviation? To conquer the north for themselves? With 500 men? Or is he an agent for the Lannisters?

I dunno. Especially with the speech Theon's sister gave him earlier about taking care of him when he was screaming in the crib. She probably felt responsible for him and didn't want her brother to die needlessly. She tried convincing him to leave on his own, he refused, so she had to make it look like Winterfell was being assaulted and then just nab him.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Quorin Halfhand basically realized that they'd both die, so he sacrificed himself (knowing he was injured) so that at least Jon Snow could infiltrate the Wildlings (because it would seem like Snow had turned on the Nights Watch).

[Guynemer]

It is clear in the book, if a bit muddled in the show; I'm not sure if the show wants to keep it a mystery for now or not, so I'll put in answer in a spoiler tag:

Spoiler:

In the book, Jon and Qhorin are never captured in the first place, but are trying to get back to the others to warn them of the Wildling army. They eventually get caught by a Wildling group (led by Rattleshirt, including Ygritte), but before they do, Qhorin tells Jon that he must infiltrate the Wildlings to learn their plans, and that he must not hesitate to do anything they ask. When the Wildlings find them, Jon goes over to them, Qhorin calls him a coward, and Rattleshirt orders him to kill Qhorin to prove his loyalty. Jon realized that Qhorin knew that would happen all along.

[Sir Og]

I'm guessing the sieging army wasn't that one guy's bastard son, but Theon's sister. I'm guessing she came to save her little brother and then burned and pillaged Winterfell as they left.

That seems unlikely considering Theon's and his men's reactions to the whole siege thing.

I also could not get what exactly happened with Jon Snow and the other captured guy? Why the other guy attacked him and why the wildlings freed him after he killed him?

[Guynemer]

[OzzyKP]

Who burnt down Winterfell?
Was it Theon's guys or was it the siegeing army, which I thought wanted to recapture the castle in Rob's name?

I'm guessing the sieging army wasn't that one guy's bastard son, but Theon's sister. I'm guessing she came to save her little brother and then burned and pillaged Winterfell as they left.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Spoiler:

Not ALL Starks are so stupid that honor trumps what they have to do. Jon, after all, pretends to be a Wildling for the good of the Night's Watch - not very honorable as Jon's POV chapters make clear. Arya also realizes the limits of spoilers

[Guynemer]

On some level I can see that, but...

Spoiler:

Since Talisa isn't an actually Lady (is she), the whole concept of couldn't Robb just made her his mistress comes to the fore (which I've heard on other message boards). He marries Jayne Westerling because she actually is a Lady and thus you can't really keep nobility as a mistress... well I guess you could, but it wouldn't be good form

Spoiler:

1. This is a Stark we're talking about. His honor would not allow such a thing. 2. That's more than a bit lame.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Who burnt down Winterfell?
Was it Theon's guys or was it the siegeing army, which I thought wanted to recapture the castle in Rob's name?

You'll see next season. From what I've read I think the show wants to keep it a cliffhanger, but if you can't wait:

Spoiler:

It's the "siegeing army" led by the Bastard of Roose Bolton (Ramsay Snow). They burnt down Winterfell because while Robb is their liege lord, they don't care much for the place

[Krill]

Best. Episode. EVAR.