Is the British Empire responsible for many of the worlds problems?

[OneFootInTheGrave]

India is an example of the Brits ****ing up?

India & Pakistan = #1 chance for nuclear war, Kashmir... if they played it right and left it as one country, it might have been the biggest muslim country in the world, but a lot less problems today... but hey... Pakistan is OK until it explodes, and there is plenty of material there, more than Iran, Iraq, Libya and Syria put together.

[notyoueither]

Forcing them to stay together may well have been bloodier than anything else was or ever will be.

[OneFootInTheGrave]

ah like it is for 150 million muslims that stayed in India, right? ... it is bloody from time to time, but not that bad overall... certainly not compared to Kashmir conflict to date, and overall stability of Pakistan with nukes on board is definitely not encouraging.

[notyoueither]

I'm thinking that the civil war would have been pretty intense. Had Muslims not been given their own state I'm thinking they would have fought to take one.

The situation would have been far worse than what happened or will happen.

[OneFootInTheGrave]

it can always be debated but the partition itself was not exactly well managed either... north of 10million displaced people, up to a million dead.... and so on... civil war would not necessarily happen either, as muslims were really after equal rights, and not civil war, neither would they have the power to start one outright... but hey this is what we have today.

in short Brits messed up that one quite a bit, and the worst part is still up and coming IMO off course

[Al B. Sure!]

Holy ****. What kind of white-washed historical revisionism have you all learned? Or is this a joke?

[notyoueither]

it can always be debated but the partition itself was not exactly well managed either... north of 10million displaced people, up to a million dead.... and so on... civil war would not necessarily happen either, as muslims were really after equal rights, and not civil war, neither would they have the power to start one outright... but hey this is what we have today.

in short Brits messed up that one quite a bit, and the worst part is still up and coming IMO off course

I think we will have to agree to disagree. I think the worst was averted, although yes, the partition could have been managed better.

My real point is that India itself speaks well for the British. Assuming the area was going to be colonised anyway, I think the benefits of having been a British colony are pretty obvious when you look around at other ex-empires.

[BeBMan]

It makes trade with and moving around in real countries easier.

Oh fear not, I have nothing against the English language and I certainly would not claim that it's of no practical benefit to know it - just the guys' argument sounds to me as if it has some inherent benefit from the start or that it was given away to poor not-English-knowing-natives for altruistic reasons.

To me, it rather goes like "Knowing English is great because it is the lingua franca today esp. since British colonialism (maybe not exclusively, but to a good part) turned it into the lingua franca".

[Al B. Sure!]

Oh fear not, I have nothing against the English language and I certainly would not claim that it's of no practical benefit to know it - just the guys' argument sounds to me as if it has some inherent benefit from the start or that it was given away to poor not-English-knowing-natives for altruistic reasons.

To me, it rather goes like "Knowing English is great because it is the lingua franca today esp. since British colonialism (maybe not exclusively, but to a good part) turned it into the lingua franca".

I think 20th century American economic might is the real reason for English being a lingua franca. French was the lingua franca in 1900.

[Al B. Sure!]

Just so you all know, in American schools, we learn about the evils of European imperialism. It's a little overdone because there were good things that came out of it but all this colonialism and White Man's Burden stuff is denigrated and is seen as evil, especially in intention, even if it was a net neutral with a slight negative.

Necessary evil is about the best treatment colonialism gets.

Interesting that you Europeans think otherwise.

[BeBMan]

I think 20th century American economic might is the real reason for English being a lingua franca. French was the lingua franca in 1900.

WTF??? During absolutism and maybe Nappy's time (so incl. early 19th century), but not 1900.

[Al B. Sure!]

WTF??? During absolutism and maybe Nappy's time (so early 19th century), but not 1900.

Wikipedia says no.

French was the language of European diplomacy from the 17th century until the mid-20th century, and is still a working language of some international institutions. It was also the lingua franca of European literature in the 18th century. French is still seen on documents ranging from passports to airmail letters. Until the accession of the United Kingdom, Ireland, and Denmark in 1973, French and German were the official working languages of the European Economic Community[citation needed].
French was spoken by educated people in cosmopolitan cities of the Middle East and North Africa and remains so in the former French colonies of the Maghreb, where French is particularly important in economic capitals such as Algiers, Casablanca and Tunis. Until the outbreak of the civil war in Lebanon, French was spoken by the upper-class Christian population. French is still a lingua franca in most Western and Central African countries and an official language of some, a remnant of French and Belgian colonialism. These African countries and others are members of the Francophonie. French is the official language of the Universal Postal Union, with English added as a working language in 1994.[21] French is the main language of Québec, an official language of Canada, and the second language of Luxembourg, Belgium, and Switzerland.

As for English:

The British Empire established the use of English in regions around the world such as North America, India, Africa, Australia and New Zealand, so that by the late 19th century its reach was truly global,[19] and in the latter half of the 20th century, widespread international use of English was much reinforced by the global economic, financial, scientific, military, and cultural pre-eminence of the English-speaking countries and especially the U.S.

[BeBMan]

No it doesn't:

French was the language of European diplomacy from the 17th century until the mid-20th century, and is still a working language of some international institutions. It was also the lingua franca of European literature in the 18th century.

[Al B. Sure!]

Of European literature? Who the **** cares about that?

I thought trade, commerce, diplomacy, government, stuff like that is what is relevant.

[Al B. Sure!]

http://web.cn.edu/kwheeler/lit_terms_L.html

LINGUA FRANCA (Latin, "Frankish Language"): Any language that gains international currency as a language of trade or business.

http://quizlet.com/103181/the-cultural-landscape-an-introduction-to-human-geography-chapter-5-key-terms-and-extra-vocabulary-flash-cards/

A language mutually understood and commonly used in trade by people who have different native languages.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/lingua%20franca

any of various languages used as common or commercial tongues among peoples of diverse speech

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_lingua_francas

A lingua franca is a language systematically used to make communication possible between people not sharing a first language, in particular when it is a third language, distinct from both speakers' first languages. Examples of lingua francas are numerous, and exist on every continent. The most obvious example is English, which is the current lingua franca of international business, science, technology and aviation. There are many other lingua francas centralized on particular regions, such as Arabic, Chinese, French, Russian and Spanish.
The popularity of languages changes over time, and there are many lingua francas that are of historical importance. These include French, which was the language of European diplomacy from the 17th century until the mid-20th century, and Classical Chinese, which served as both the written lingua franca and the diplomatic language in Far East Asia until the early 20th century. French and Chinese are still significant lingua francas today.