Fiscal conservatives can't be pro-life in a country with a national health care system

[Asher]

Facts:

1) Abortions cost between $450-$800
2) Vaginal deliveries cost between $5000-$10000
3) Vaginal deliveries + the state caring for unwanted orphans for 18 years = $5000-$10000 + ???????????????

It is clearly far more economical to abort.

Discuss.

[Asher]

It makes far more sense for the country not to raise its own kids, but simply import well-educated immigrants from other countries who have had all of the fixed costs in education and child-raising already paid for. Fiscal conservatives should therefore support a lot of immigration.

[Lonestar]

Didn't Freakanomics explain that there is a correlation with lower crime and easy abortion clinic availbility?

[Asher]

Haven't read it yet, but that wouldn't surprise me.

Add lower crime rate to the list.

[Egbert]

Umh, the Spartans threw unwanted children on the rubbish tip. Free disposal. Very economical lot, those Spartans.
Civilised countries (not Canada) don't just take whatever option is cheapest and tackiest.

Let the woman who is preggers decide, I say. It is not my place to make decisions for others. Let her be the one to choose whether or not she should abort.

[Asher]

That's a controversial opinion, Braindead. Most people want other people's children aborted. Especially when you're trying to have a nice meal at a restaurant.

[Egbert]

It's a bit late when you're having a nice meal at a restaurant. Although the the noisy little horrors might make one seriously think it would have been a very good idea for the mother to have had multiple abortions.

The idea of letting the preggers woman decide doesn't seem at all controversial in this part of the world. I will admit there is a controversy about this in barbarian countries. I guess that's why you see it as controversial.

[notyoueither]

Summary execution of truants could decrease crime rates, and reduce future costs of incarceration.

[Jon Miller]

Also abortion means that there are more men out there:

http://www.economist.com/node/15606229

JM

[Egbert]

I vaguely recall reading something about some politicians in India wanting to ban any method of determining the gender of an unborn child. Such is the seriousness of the problem. I don't know how far this idea went or who was thinking about it. Arguably,s there are some things are best not known. It certainly has the potential to do subtle but substantial damage to the fabric of a society.

I actually like this idea even though it certainly does encroach on the freedom of individuals to make there own choices. (Read this in the context that I think abortion should be the choice of the woman who is pregnant).

[Jon Miller]

Abortion has removed over a 100m women who would be alive today were it not for abortion.

This is just counting those cases where the sex of the child influenced the decision.

Is a blanket 'abortion is a right' position really a pro-woman position?

JM

[Egbert]

Speaking for myself, I have no interest in adopting "pro-women" positions. I am in favour of maternal choice simply because the foetus happens to be inside a woman and thus it is more appropriate that she, rather than me, should decide if a decision is to be made. I don't regard a foetus as a "human" which seems the crux of the choice argument. I can't quite think of the words to describe it, perhaps as a sort of proto-human which is not fully functioning in any way. I should think those who regard a fetus as a human would be in favour of a blanket ban on abortion.

EDIT. I see this as a rather messy issue, not at all clearcut. I am not entirely comfortable with my position simply because of the uncertainty surrounding the humanity of a foetus. Self-awareness is perhaps the key point for me. (A sperm cell and an egg are certainly not a human. I think that they must at least join together for there to be debate about that. At the precise time they do join together seems, to me, not to make a human but at some point it does grow into a self aware functioning humam).

[Jon Miller]

I do favor a blanket ban on abortion (Except when life/etc) when there is brain activity in the child.

JM

[MikeH]

Abortion has removed over a 100m women who would be alive today were it not for abortion.

This is just counting those cases where the sex of the child influenced the decision.

Is a blanket 'abortion is a right' position really a pro-woman position?

JM

Is a blanket 'abortion is a right' position really a pro-woman position? - Yes

So is a blanket 'coercing a woman into having an abortion for any reason is wrong" position.

[Jon Miller]

What makes you think that they are coerced?

Having a male baby is what women in these sorts of cultures generally want for themselves. They aren't (generally) coerced.

JM