Long working hours kill.

[KrazyHorse]

A mob of other people including the individual.

Why should one individual have more right to select their legislation than the crowd?

Feel free to choose your own job in a society of 1.

Holy ****, mike. Please think before you post.

I asked you why legislators knew better than an individual what was good for the individual. You said that individuals chose their legislators. I pointed out that they don't, actually (meaning that in addition to the agency problem we also have a problem whereby a large number of individuals have their interests "represented" by people whose platform is opposed to that individual's wishes) and you respond with some childish nonsense about rights/fairness?

Individuals, in the vast majority of cases make better decisions for themselves than other people make for them. This is especially true when their agents are as weakly responsible to them as governments are to individuals.

[MikeH]

That's a much shorter way of saying what I said a few posts ago.

[MikeH]

Individuals, in the vast majority of cases make better decisions for themselves than other people make for them.

Is this actually true? I'm not completely sure.

[KrazyHorse]

Troll, KH?

Not in the slightest. It's apparent to me that not a one of you has bothered to examine this concept rationally.

[MikeH]

I asked you why legislators knew better than an individual what was good for the individual. You said that individuals chose their legislators.

I also said a lot of other stuff that you ignored.

[KrazyHorse]

Is this actually true? I'm not completely sure.

Why do you think socialism doesn't work?

[MikeH]

Not in the slightest. It's apparent to me that not a one of you has bothered to examine this concept rationally.

And yet, as has been proven historically, societies that have implemented worker rights have time and again outperformed ones that haven't. How do you explain that?

[Krill]

3. Habitual unpaid overtime being expected, in jobs where there's no other benefit that might occur from your overtime (eg. bonus) is retarded and people deserve to be protected from it.

WTF? Are British people so stupid that they work longer than they have to when there is no possible upside to them?

Sounds like a troll, because it misses the obvious idea that people work longer hours unpaid because if they don't agree to that they'll be unemployed before too long. Wasn't there a thread about right to work and the minimum wage a while ago?

[KrazyHorse]

I also said a lot of other stuff that you ignored.

Nothing worth responding to that I can see...

[MikeH]

Why do you think socialism doesn't work?

All modern western nations implement elements of Socialism, none are purely Capitalist. Not even the US. As we've seen US labour laws aren't entirely market driven. You can't even pick employees based on what colour they are or what sex they are.

[MikeH]

Sweden is a very socialistic country, many European countries are to varying degrees. They all work.

Even Communism 'works', it can feed, clothe, shelter, protect a huge population. It just doesn't outperform other models.

[MikeH]

Nothing worth responding to that I can see...

Full of WIN then.

[MikeH]

The main point that's worth answering can be summarised thusly:

Historically in the UK during the industrial revolution society switched to cities and for a while we had a purely market driven employment system. It was really, really **** for the vast majority of workers, and we quickly legislated away from it. Why would it be different if we went back to that now?

[OneFootInTheGrave]

Why do you think socialism doesn't work?

#1. What is socialism?
#2. Socialism works, at least as implemented in the Scandinavian countries and central Europe
#3. Mike's question has a lot of better examples to show it's a silly question then comparison to socialism...

#4. we need another topic for any of those above...

[MikeH]

It's not a silly question at all.

Game theory experiments show us that it's extremely common for people to make an illogical choice. And in many cases even when they do choose the best option for the individual it isn't the best for the society as a whole which they are part of. Prisoners Dilemma is a classic. Maximum WIN for everyone is if everyone keeps quiet, but for every individual it's always better to squeal.

An outsider legislating that they have to keep quiet could maximise win for everyone, despite that choice seeming to be against each individual player's best interests if they made the choice individually.